Helpful ReplyPlugin Question

Author
asimmd
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 375
  • Joined: 2006/08/31 14:21:36
  • Location: U.K
  • Status: offline
2018/01/08 16:08:06 (permalink)

Plugin Question

Hi All
I have recorded 8 tracks with various guitar parts and I want to put the same plugin on each track.
Is there a way to do this without putting the plugin separately on each track.

Sonar Platinum - Intel i5 Quad Core - Win7 64Bit - 8 Gig Ram - Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 - Vox AC30HW2X - Torpedo Reload - Vox AC15C1 - MJW Custom Built Amp - Fender NOS56 Strat - Universal Audio and Waves Plugins - Softube - Redwirez IR's
 
 
#1
CakeAlexSHere
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 577
  • Joined: 2016/05/19 12:03:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 16:09:40 (permalink)
Investigate sending to a bus. The bus should have your effect inserted in it.

This may be the quickest way to handle it (create a new bus):
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Mixing.13.html
 
#2
asimmd
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 375
  • Joined: 2006/08/31 14:21:36
  • Location: U.K
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 16:29:16 (permalink)
Thanks -so if I set up a bus I can send all the guitar tracks to that bus then I just add
the plugin once.
Excellent thanks.

Sonar Platinum - Intel i5 Quad Core - Win7 64Bit - 8 Gig Ram - Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 - Vox AC30HW2X - Torpedo Reload - Vox AC15C1 - MJW Custom Built Amp - Fender NOS56 Strat - Universal Audio and Waves Plugins - Softube - Redwirez IR's
 
 
#3
CakeAlexSHere
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 577
  • Joined: 2016/05/19 12:03:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 16:33:29 (permalink)
Yes indeed. But it may produce different results it just depends on what you want and the techniques you want to adopt.
 
Consider though in some scenarios keeping the individual plugs, and editing and/or bouncing down to a stereo track (or something) and then archiving off some of the tracks leaving just one stereo guitar track (or whatever).
 
Cheers.
#4
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 18:05:56 (permalink)
I agree with the Bus idea as well but you haven't said why you cant put the Guitar plug in on each track.
This isn't 1994 when we had 214MB of RAM using a Pentium 1.
 
If its an Amp Sim I highly suggest you don't try using a Bus.
Amp Sims need to be put on each individual track because of separation purposes (especially distorted guitars). 
It will sound like mush.
 
 

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#5
CakeAlexSHere
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 577
  • Joined: 2016/05/19 12:03:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 18:19:01 (permalink)
#6
bitman
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4105
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:11:54
  • Location: Keystone Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 18:25:31 (permalink)
Select the tracks in question. Hold down CTRL-SHIFT together. While continuing to hold down CTRL-SHIFT, use your mouse to insert the desired effect. The chosen effect will be inserted into each track. - Not that this feature is is the New Sonar and I don't recall just when if it was implemented back in the X1 - X3 days.
#7
CakeAlexSHere
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 577
  • Joined: 2016/05/19 12:03:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 18:38:19 (permalink)
asimmd
Is there a way to do this without putting the plugin separately on each track.

 
bitman
Select the tracks in question. Hold down CTRL-SHIFT together. While continuing to hold down CTRL-SHIFT, use your mouse to insert the desired effect. The chosen effect will be inserted into each track. - Not that this feature is is the New Sonar and I don't recall just when if it was implemented back in the X1 - X3 days.



Good tip but that that puts the plugins separately on each track doesn't it?
#8
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 18:47:37 (permalink)
As said it all depends on the effect as to where it will work the best. 
Ambient effects like Reverb, Delay and even chorus work well on a buss because you want to share the ambient "space" across your tracks. More than one "space" is confusing t the listener. 
But tonal effects like EQ, compression and overdrive belong in Pro channel or the track bin. 
 
Think of it like this,, you wouldn't want to share your guitar amp with the other guitar player. But you will share the same "stage" and room ambiance. That said, rules are made to be broken and as always you could say-- what ever sounds right to you.. experiment with different set ups. 
 
Using multiple instances of PLug ins- it's easy to save pre sets so you can share the same settings. Or use a Track template where you have you effects in Pro Chanel or the Bin. Drop the audio or open the template before you record the new part. That's what I do. 
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2018/01/08 19:13:32

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#9
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 19:06:09 (permalink)
Cactus Music
 
But tonal effects like EQ, compression and overdrive belong in Pro channel or the track bin. 
 
Think of it like this,, you wouldn't want to share your guitar amp with the other guitar player. 
 



I disagree - it's quite commonplace to bus something like multiple guitars to an aux and then apply a little bus EQ or glue compression. Even a little light saturation across the whole bus can achieve a glueing effect. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#10
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 19:18:20 (permalink)
OK I agree certainly you can compress a buss, I do this sometimes, but  what I was getting at is guitar effect type compression ( stomp box)  which is sort of part of the guitars overall tone. I added a line to my above original post at the bottom which covers this.. Rules are made to be broken, experimenting is fun too.  

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#11
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 19:22:44 (permalink)
It would be helpful to know what type of plugin the Op wants to add to his tracks
 
This way a more definitive answer would be forthcoming.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#12
CakeAlexSHere
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 577
  • Joined: 2016/05/19 12:03:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 19:37:01 (permalink)
^^
I wouldn't suggest there isn't any definitive answer :), art is art. I would suggest it depends more on what the OP is trying to achieve. Pretty much all the basic options have been covered in this thread imho so he can try them all out and cherry pick what he needs. He could use all of them at once if he decided !!
#13
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 20:05:23 (permalink)
I understood what Johnny was saying. that's how I Eq and Compress my guitars. I do use the Waves SSL bus compressor on my Git Bus but glue ?
There is already too much glue these days. Glue on the tracks, Glue on the buses, Glue on the master bus then more Glue in the mastering stages.
Glue can be helpful but it can also glop everything in to one pile of unrecognizable garbage with no dynamics.

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#14
asimmd
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 375
  • Joined: 2006/08/31 14:21:36
  • Location: U.K
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 20:35:23 (permalink)
Thanks for the replies.
First of all my guitar tracks are all clean the plugin I was going to use would be
Isotope neutron the light version as I want to try and use a small number of plugins and this does
EQ and compression.

Not because of computer restrictions but simply because it's easier to keep track of them.

I suppose I could drag all the guitar parts onto 1 track and then plugins would not be a problem.

I'll try various things tomorrow.

Sonar Platinum - Intel i5 Quad Core - Win7 64Bit - 8 Gig Ram - Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 - Vox AC30HW2X - Torpedo Reload - Vox AC15C1 - MJW Custom Built Amp - Fender NOS56 Strat - Universal Audio and Waves Plugins - Softube - Redwirez IR's
 
 
#15
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/08 21:11:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2018/01/08 21:16:36
asimmd
Thanks for the replies.
First of all my guitar tracks are all clean the plugin I was going to use would be
Isotope neutron the light version as I want to try and use a small number of plugins and this does
EQ and compression.

Not because of computer restrictions but simply because it's easier to keep track of them.

I suppose I could drag all the guitar parts onto 1 track and then plugins would not be a problem.

I'll try various things tomorrow.

I would never consider doing that as it's so easy to paint yourself into a corner and you have many other options, as suggested above.
For EQ you would likely want to EQ them separately anyway - if every track had the same curve you run the risk of frequency masking with no scope for carving out their own space. Result - mush.
Similarly for compression - you'll get a much better result to compress individual tracks.
You can easily route them all to a guitar bus and compress that as well to gel them together.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#16
CakeAlexSHere
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 577
  • Joined: 2016/05/19 12:03:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/09 03:09:57 (permalink)
With Neutron Advanced the selling point is that you can have individual plugins and EQ to reduce overhead if the rest of the functionality is not required. That would be the way to go.
 
IMHO Neutron really is designed to be on every track, there is a setting to reduce overhead somewhere. Neutron is really a mixing tool not that great to use whilst recording unless you have a load of power.
 
You may want to try other EQ/compression plugins with less overhead if this is a problem.

Regardless do what is right for you, there are no rules.
#17
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/09 18:29:14 (permalink)
chuckebaby
I understood what Johnny was saying. that's how I Eq and Compress my guitars. I do use the Waves SSL bus compressor on my Git Bus but glue ?
There is already too much glue these days. Glue on the tracks, Glue on the buses, Glue on the master bus then more Glue in the mastering stages.
Glue can be helpful but it can also glop everything in to one pile of unrecognizable garbage with no dynamics.




Not necessarily. Firstly, glue (or bus) compression shouldn't really affect your dynamics in any negative way if done correctly. Typically you'd set a long attack like 30ms or so to make sure all of the transients come through, and you're using a fast release. Secondly, I think the idea of using different stages of glue compression (or any compression) is that you divide your gain reduction between multiple compressors instead of having one compressor do all the heavy lifting. 1-2dB of gain reduction on the mix buses, and 1-2dB of gain reduction on the master bus. Instead of having 3-4dB of gain reduction on the master bus. No need to sacrifice your dynamics. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#18
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/09 18:57:05 (permalink)
I like your idea James. I find this is what I've been doing since Pro Channel offered us a simple way to add EQ & Compression to every track.  I put them there and some barley show any action but in my mind it keeps an eye on that track.  I also hi Pass everything. 
I tend to record audio hot and have a certain Velocity I aim for for midi parts, example Bass is always 112 Vel, and the midi track at it's default of 107 level. So everything starts life pretty loud. If I find a peak I'll deal with it microscopically using envelopes or rendering gain.  Then I'm in a ballpark and just start pulling some faders down a bit to mix. 
But I also will use the same tools on my sub busses with slightly different settings. All fancy stuff I do at the sub buss level. 
I only use the BT Brickwall on the Master buss I set at - .4db which is a bit dangerous but seems to work. 
All my songs come out at -.4db peak so it then it's a matter of using Wave lab to check the RMS average. If they come out quiet still say, -16 I'll apply +2db using the Steinberg Loudness Maximizer. You can only add about +4 with that tool. I aim for Average -14db. RMS

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#19
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13146
  • Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/09 20:51:01 (permalink)
Conversation is a tough one. Because we all work in different ways and different music.
What might be common to one person is not for another.
for example, myself personally, would never put and kind of compressor, brickwall limiter on the master bus itself.
I know some that do and their mixes sound great. However some will say "Putting a limiter or compression on your master bus is a big no no".
 
The things and people in music who have stood out the most in music production are the ones who have chosen to be different and done things in a different way Vs. the cookie cutter production.
I choose automation over compression 90% of the time because even a greatly set compressor will still color the sound. But that's only my preference.
 

Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
   
#20
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13933
  • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
  • Location: NYC
  • Status: offline
Re: Plugin Question 2018/01/12 19:03:34 (permalink)
One thing I've learned about glue compression though is that it can give your tracks a subtle musical bounce which enhances the groove. For example if it's a song with a heavy kick that drives the track, the GR needle of your glue compressor is going to dance in time with the kick and give it some rhythmic movement. 

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#21
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1