Helpful ReplyConfiguring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs

Author
PCGregory
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8
  • Joined: 2017/05/27 17:05:18
  • Status: offline
2018/02/22 12:49:04 (permalink)

Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs

It seems every time I get every track assigned to the right inputs and then open again with one of the devices disconnected it reassigns all the previous assigns (and deletes "user names"!
It's a real pain!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it stacks the devices in the order they were switched on initially and when one is removed it just reorders them to what is available
I think it is a fundamental Asio problem????, I'm using ASIO4ALL driverI hope there is some workaround or solution to this problem
I'm really not sure how people can transport projects to other studios with this problem.
Also I have been informed once all are correctly assigned I might get timing clock sync problems. If this is so how do I deal with this?Audio INPUTS:
1) Behringer Xenyx UFX1204 mixer -12 inputs
2) Roland TD50 EDrum module - 9 inputs
3) DuoCapture EX - 2 inputs
4) Zoom G2.1 Nu guitar effect peddle -1 input
5) Zoom R8 interface controler (A/D converter) - 2 input
 
Also inputting
Novation LaunchKey Mini midi controler
And a Carbon 61midi controller key board
These are unaffected  by this problem as I believe they run separately from the Asio driver?
#1
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10666
  • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Ableton 10 with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 12:52:54 (permalink)
Hi. If this is regarding Ableton, you should post on the Ableton site. This forum is for SONAR related questions.
Also, I believe the Duo Capture has ASIO drivers written for it. If so, I wouldn't use ASIO4ALL.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#2
PCGregory
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8
  • Joined: 2017/05/27 17:05:18
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 13:05:31 (permalink)
OOPS.............
I was posting to several forums.
 
This problem is exactly the same with CAKEWALK SONAR.
 
#3
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10666
  • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 13:11:03 (permalink)
My suggestion is to uninstall ASIO4ALL, reboot, and install the proper drivers for your Duo Capture.
https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/duo-capture_ex/updates_drivers/
 

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#4
PCGregory
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8
  • Joined: 2017/05/27 17:05:18
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 13:17:47 (permalink)
Hi guys..................
The title was 

Configuring Ableton (or SONAR) 10 with MULTIPLE DAC inputs

So I must use ASIO4AL
 
Audio INPUTS:
1) Behringer Xenyx UFX1204 mixer -12 inputs
2) Roland TD50 EDrum module - 9 inputs
3) DuoCapture EX - 2 inputs
4) Zoom G2.1 Nu guitar effect peddle -1 input
5) Zoom R8 interface controler (A/D converter) - 2 input
 
Also inputting
Novation LaunchKey Mini midi controler
And a Carbon 61midi controller key board
These are unaffected  by this problem as I believe they run separately from the Asio driver?

#5
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10666
  • Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Ableton 10 with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 13:19:34 (permalink)
Sorry. Didin't notice that.

Ken Nilsen
Zargg
BBZ
Win 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII
Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
 
#6
pwalpwal
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3249
  • Joined: 2015/01/17 03:52:50
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 13:35:27 (permalink)
i was gonna suggest posting in the asio4all forum but it seems to be down at the moment
 
you could try turning them all on in the order of "most use" - so your default you'd turn on first - then the least used dac (that you haven't turned on) will be bottom of the list so your main interface won't be affected/reassigned? 
so if you turn them on in this order:
1) Behringer Xenyx UFX1204 mixer -12 inputs
2) Roland TD50 EDrum module - 9 inputs
3) DuoCapture EX - 2 inputs
4) Zoom G2.1 Nu guitar effect peddle -1 input
5) Zoom R8 interface controler (A/D converter) - 2 input
 
 
then turning off #5 shouldn't affect #s 1-4 and yes, asio does audio not midi, so it doesn't affect those devices
 
[edit to re-do the messed up formatting]

just a sec

#7
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 13:43:44 (permalink)
Zargg
Sorry. Didin't notice that.


The OP posted the same thread in hardware too except with a more appropriate title for this area. I merged the two threads and clean up the subject.
 
To the OP please do not cross-post on this forum.
#8
grbarteck
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 15
  • Joined: 2014/12/24 08:16:10
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 22:39:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cactus Music 2018/02/22 22:53:38
Sorry if this double posts, but my first one seemed to disappear....
 
The most constructive advice I can give is that the configuration being attempted by the OP has the potential to frustrate even the most technically savvy Windows audio hobbyist or professional.  Using 5 different audio devices of different manufacturers, different drivers, and all as simultaneous inputs to a Windows DAW is the stuff of troubleshooting nightmares, no matter how determined you are.  You will get very close (as it looks like you have), and something else will happen to undermine your confidence (like scrambling the inputs).   Unless you get extremely lucky, you could end up chasing stability or performance that you can never achieve.  I've been there, even if just because I like to push my hardware and knowledge to the limits to see what it can do.  Let me explain (at least from my experience).
 
Windows DAW software has not had a good history of being able to "combine" audio devices without compromises.  I heard iOS can integrate multiple audio devices better, but I have never been a Mac user, so I can't comment.
 
Choosing ASIO4ALL to attempt this is probably the best thing to try if you are trying to achieve ASIO level performance. For all its good and bad press, ASIO4ALL is an amazing piece of free software, especially when you get lucky and it works in your configuration.  I've seen ASIO4ALL do things that the native ASIO drivers could not do, and I still can't explain it.  BUT, even when it "worked", there were always gremlins.  Many of ASIO4ALL settings (expert mode) are mysterious, unpredictable, and likely would need to be tweaked PER audio device to get them all synced and stable.  That is a LARGE number of variables to tackle for 5 different inputs.  And then you go down the rabbit hole of endless tweaking and never quite getting the same performance or the stability of one rock solid factory driver.  For this reason, many warn to stay away from ASIO4ALL, even though it DOES work very well in certain situations.
 
Another alternative (for SONAR anyway) is to attempt to use the non-ASIO (Windows driver) models if they are available for all your inputs.  SONAR audio configuration allows you to select multiple (non ASIO) audio devices for simultaneous use.  The "gotcha" however is that those drivers (especially in combination with one another) rarely achieve the level of performance of ASIO drivers.  If you are very sensitive to latency (delays) for virtual instruments or live monitoring, then you may not be happy this this approach, either.  In my tests, I was never comfortable with the non-ASIO performance for my needs.  However, if you don't use virtual instruments and don't monitor your inputs through SONAR, this might work for you.
 
Now to the last point.... even IF you get 5 different audio devices playing nicely with one another, the original problem of SONAR (or other software) scrambling the inputs (and/or outputs) of multiple pieces of hardware is also a fairly common complaint that I've experienced myself with "off normal" configurations.  The behavior you describe when the precise order of powering devices, or the unpredictable driver order of devices powered on simultaneously, or the accidental "leaving one device off" when starting SONAR, or any other variation on the theme, seems to cause SONAR and other programs to "intelligently" reassign inputs and outputs based on what it thinks you DO have at the moment.  I have never found a way to force SONAR to lock down input and output assignments when it thinks the hardware configuration has changed.  This scrambling of input/output order has affected MIDI devices for me also.
 
I'll wrap this up.  I responded because I've probably spend hundreds of hours myself trying to make audio/DAW software do things that are on the fringe of "normal/stable" configurations... and I always lose.  I get SOOOO close.  In the end, I purchased different modern hardware with supported drivers and enough inputs, and my troubleshooting nightmares (or at least my wasted time) went away.
 
I wish you the best in making this work.. and maybe trying SONAR's non-ASIO drivers is something else you can try, but I am just cautioning that trying to get 5 different audio input devices working well/simultaneously on Windows might make you crazy and more obsessed with fighting computer/DAW settings than making music. 
 
This is a big reason why many advise to choose ONE brand of well respected hardware with enough inputs to cover their needs.  It's probably not what you want to hear, but you'll have fewer nightmares.  I know I did.
 
Good luck
#9
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/22 23:15:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2018/02/23 09:30:08
Excellent post Gabriel and you covered so many things that I myself have found with this topic.. using multiple audio interfaces. And your overview of asio4all, for once around here, is fair and accurate. People who have never used it bash it because of the many posts from people who did have issues. Of course we never hear from those who use it with success. I've been using it for over a year without issue on a laptop I use for midi/VST stuff. And I can plug in either of my interfaces and asio4all gets out of the way and my ins and outs all work just fine.  
 
So a few comments of my own to the OP. 
 
Why do you need these all working at the same time? If it's just to record a multi input live session then driver mode is not as critical. I have used multiple audio devices in WDM mode without any sync issues to record live bands.  But you don't want to use anything but a high quality ASIO driver for audio overdubs. You will have timing offset issues. Only ASIO ( and asio4all ) report RTL to your DAW so it can playback pre recorded tracks in sync with the new input tracks. As each interface has different specs and RTL performance there is no way you can use multiple devices and have Sonar calculate the RTL for everything. This is impossible. 
But as I said, this doesn't matter for the first initial live recording as RTL is not involved. There CAN be tiny track offset issues because of the input latency of each device so you need to be aware of this. What I do is make sure my critical instruments ( bass, drums)  are in the multitrack audio interface, in your case this is the Behringer mixer. Vocals and guitars are never that tight anyways :) 
 
Overdubs normally don't require multi channels. Most will record the "band" multi track live and then overdub one track at a time. So really all you need is the duo capture for overdubs and playback once you've done the mian multi track session. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#10
PCGregory
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8
  • Joined: 2017/05/27 17:05:18
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/24 17:12:04 (permalink)
Thanks to all you guys for the input.
 
Does anyone know how Asio4all orders the Audio devices and if it is possible to rearrange this order?
At first I thought it was the sequence that the devices were switched on but that does not seem to be the case..........in fact it seems quite arbitrary?
#11
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 12010
  • Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
  • Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
  • Status: offline
Re: Configuring Cakewalk SONAR with multiple DAC inputs 2018/02/26 10:47:02 (permalink)
Devices are displayed in the order in which Windows recognises them.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz.
Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2.
Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub.
Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX.
Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor.
Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
#12
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1