mwmcbroom
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SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
Okay, I read through the documentation at Cakewalk's site, such that it is, on recording with SPlat. But none of it seems to work for me. What I'm trying to do is most likely dead simple, I just haven't figured it out yet. The song file is composed entirely of MIDI -- a total of six tracks. All I want to do is record a .wav file of it. The documentation steps you through the process, but doesn't mention anything about recording the midi to an audio track. Which I'm assuming is the way to do it. So I've set up an audio track and I've tried recording the midi tracks to the audio track but it won't do it, and I don't know why. So what am I missing?
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brandonc
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/04 22:40:40
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Highlight Soft synths & Midi Tracks then choose "Bounce to Tracks"
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mwmcbroom
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/04 22:57:28
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Okay, dumb question number one: where do I go to highlight soft synths and midi tracks? Or do you mean I should just highlight the tracks that are already there? Tracks 1 through 6? I can probably figure out where "bounce to tracks" is located. Nope, I've looked all over. Where's that command hiding?
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Faza_TCM
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/04 23:00:24
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If you're using virtual instruments to generate sounds from the MIDI tracks, then - like brandonc says - selecting the MIDI source tracks and the VI output tracks and hitting "Bounce to track(s)..." from the "Tracks" dropdown is the way to go (make sure that the entire length of the tracks to be bounced is selected). On the off chance that you're using an external sound generator (for example, running the MIDI data to a keyboard or sound module), you'll need to connect the generator's output to your audio input and record it as audio. EDIT: Ninja'd, but hope that at least the location of the bounce command helps. Also, you select tracks in Track View by Ctrl-clicking their numbers (will highlight).
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brandonc
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/04 23:16:56
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what Faza_TCM said !!! Thanks Faza for the additional info !!
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mwmcbroom
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/04 23:30:26
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Faza_TCM If you're using virtual instruments to generate sounds from the MIDI tracks, then - like brandonc says - selecting the MIDI source tracks and the VI output tracks and hitting "Bounce to track(s)..." from the "Tracks" dropdown is the way to go (make sure that the entire length of the tracks to be bounced is selected). I don't know from "MIDI source tracks" and "VI output". All I know is I have six tracks of MIDI data that I want to record as a .wav file. I did find the "Bounce to Tracks" command though and it returned an error, stating "The specified selection did not contain any audio data. Please ensure that the selection contains the audio date you wish to bounce." Well duh. Of course it doesn't contain any audio data. That's what I'm trying to create. Or convert. Whatever. On the off chance that you're using an external sound generator (for example, running the MIDI data to a keyboard or sound module), you'll need to connect the generator's output to your audio input and record it as audio. Nope, but good to know because I have two midi instruments hooked up to my system, which will be used in future tunes. EDIT: Ninja'd, but hope that at least the location of the bounce command helps. Also, you select tracks in Track View by Ctrl-clicking their numbers (will highlight). This much I know how to do at least. Also the [shift] key works if you want to highlight everything at once.
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brandonc
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/04 23:39:52
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your midi tracks have to feed VIRTUAL INSTRUMENTS(or hardware) to get the sounds to BOUNCE as Audio Tracks. MIDI does NOT contain ANY sounds of its own. Midi is digital language that tells the sound source (virtual instrument or hardware synth) I HIT THIS or THESE NOTES AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I HIT THE NOTE THIS HARD, and I HELD THE NOTE THIS LONG ( along with a lot more advanced language & tricks ) YOU CANNOT bounce midi to audio IF you DON'T have the midi feeding an VI track.
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carlosvallejo
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/05 00:26:06
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A small simple explanation to help. Midi tracks are data only tracks. They dont produce audio (.wav) sounds. In order to produce sounds, midi data contained in midi tracks have to be sent to either a hardware external midi box (or midi keyboard) or sent to internal software instruments. You do this selecting the midi track and specifying in the output field of the midi track of the inspector where is the midi data sent (either a usb or midi cable if sent to external box or keyboard, or if it is sent to a software instrument track (for example a vst plug in) previously created). If you are using external midi boxes (or external keyboard) that listen to midi tracks, the external midi box is the one that produces the sounds, so you have to take the audio outputs of this external midi box and connect it back to the audio line input of your computer to be able to record this sounds just as you would record any other sound in a computer. If you are not using a external hardware midi sound box, then you have to use software instruments to produce sounds. To do this you send the midi data of your midi track(s) to the software instrument(s) and those software instruments produce the sounds within your computer. In this case you dont have to use external cables but you have to use "bounce traks". How: you select the midi tracks you want to use and also select the software instruments tracks asociated that produce the sounds and choose bounce tracks. When you do this SPLAT will ask you in wich audio track you want to record the wav sounds produced. You have to create previously a empty audio track or specify new audio track. Carlos
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Faza_TCM
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/05 07:09:50
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mwmcbroom I don't know from "MIDI source tracks" and "VI output". All I know is I have six tracks of MIDI data that I want to record as a .wav file. I did find the "Bounce to Tracks" command though and it returned an error, stating "The specified selection did not contain any audio data. Please ensure that the selection contains the audio date you wish to bounce." Well duh. Of course it doesn't contain any audio data. That's what I'm trying to create. Or convert. Whatever.
First and most important thing: are you getting any sound at all on playback? (I know it's probably dumb of me to ask, but I thought I'd get the obvious stuff out of the way.) I done drawed a pretty picture to show what's going on behind the scenes, but can't upload it to the forum so words it is. To get MIDI-based music in the box, here are the ducks you need to have in a row: - A MIDI track with all your note data,
- A soft synth (a.k.a. virtual intrument or VI) in your synth rack,
- At least one audio track,
- Choose your soft synth as the output of your MIDI track,
- Choose the output of your soft synth as the input of your audio track,
- Send the output of your audio track to your master bus (or direct to your audio hardware output).
et voila, you should be hearing your MIDI notes played on your soft synth. In order to bounce this to an audio track, you'll need to select both the MIDI track where the notes are, as well as the audio track being fed by your soft synth. If you don't select the audio track you get the "no audio data" error. If you don't select the MIDI track, you won't get any notes renedered (the bounced audio will consist of silence). Apart from selecting both the MIDI track feeding your soft synth and the audio track accepting the soft synth output, you also need to select the region of timeline to be rendered (otherwise the program will think there's nothing to mix down). If you were selecting the tracks in the track list, the entire timeline should be selected by default.
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mwmcbroom
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/05 13:29:57
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I'm not totally MIDI illiterate. In fact, I used to be something of an expert with it -- about 17 years ago, which was the last time I did much with my DAW. I've forgotten so much . . . So I had the MIDI devices feeding into my soft synths and indicated as such with each track, no problem there. Turns out, the stumbling block I was running into was not highlighting the soft synths also when I tried to execute the "bounce" command. After I highlighted the soft synth tracks as well, I got audio. Yay! And thanks for answering a question I was wondering about, namely did I need to have the individual tracks highlighted at all? Could I have just highlighted the soft synths and wound up with the same audio? So, I have to have everything highlighted. Good to know. Got a related question for you. Because of some effects I have loaded, after the song hits its final note, the sounds don't end there -- they taper off for a couple of measures before the tune becomes truly silent. So I was trying to figure out an easy way to extend the measures of the song. Well I didn't find an easy way but I did find a way. In the window to the left that shows "Clip Track ProCh", when "Clip" is selected, one of the data points indicates the length of that track. So I just edited that number to end it where I wanted, then copied this to all the other tracks. Including the audio track. After doing this, I got the sound I wanted at the end of the piece. EDIT: I found that I only needed to lengthen the audio track's length -- I didn't have to mess with the MIDI tracks. So is that the best way to do this or is there another, quicker way? I was looking for a way to set an "end" flag, but nothing was jumping out at me as a way to do it. Knowing Sonar, though, the command is nested away somewhere where you gotta know where to look to find it.
post edited by mwmcbroom - 2018/03/05 16:51:14
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Faza_TCM
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/05 17:08:18
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mwmcbroom Got a related question for you. Because of some effects I have loaded, after the song hits its final note, the sounds don't end there -- they taper off for a couple of measures before the tune becomes truly silent. So I was trying to figure out an easy way to extend the measures of the song. Well I didn't find an easy way but I did find a way. In the window to the left that shows "Clip Track ProCh", when "Clip" is selected, one of the data points indicates the length of that track. So I just edited that number to end it where I wanted, then copied this to all the other tracks. Including the audio track. After doing this, I got the sound I wanted at the end of the piece. So is that the best way to do this or is there another, quicker way? I was looking for a way to set an "end" flag, but nothing was jumping out at me as a way to do it. Knowing Sonar, though, the command is nested away somewhere where you gotta know where to look to find it.
Am I correct in understanding that you're talking about reverb/delay tails and such (audio FX on the soft synth tracks)? If that's the case, you don't actually need to do anything - other than make sure "Tack FX" and/or "Bus FX" are enabled in the "Bounce to Track(s)" (or "Export Audio") dialog - SONAR should render audio to include all effect generated sounds, as well as the actual soft-synth notes. Just ran a test with some crazy delay applied to a kick track and the bounced audio ended up with 15 additional measures for the delay tail. Do bear in mind, however, that the bounced audio is going to be the length of the selection on your timeline, so the tails might get cut off if you've only selected the full length of all your MIDI clips. Because you want to mix down your whole project, the easiest way around it is to simply press Ctrl-A and Select All (all tracks, the whole timeline). Clicking on a track in the list to select it should also select the entire timeline. Alternatively, you can simply select the length of your song, plus however many extra measures you need, in the timeline directly. If, for whatever reason, you need to put extra empty measures in one or more of the clips, the quickest way is to grab the end of it with the mouse and drag it out for however long you need.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/05 22:11:06
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mwmcbroom - if you're just using soft synths, don't even bother with bouncing, just freeze the synth. This will create the audio track(s) for you. If you want to change the Midi, just unfreeze, tweak, and freeze again.
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mwmcbroom
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/06 16:52:42
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Thanks for your suggestions. I've just been muddling along, changing the endings of each track in the Clip box. It works well enough.
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Cactus Music
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/06 17:39:25
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In my signature is a link to my tutorial on using MIDI in Sonar I think it will help you sort this out.
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mwmcbroom
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/08 17:19:58
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Thanks, Johnny. I'll check them out. Edit: Johnny, I'm reading through your tutorial and following along in SPlat. Very Nice! One question, though, when you mention inserting the Stereo Bus, my copy of SPlat doesn't do anything. And yes, I looked all the way down at the bottom of the track view. Also, the console view doesn't show it, either -- which means it didn't load for some reason. I tried the Surround command also. Same difference. Now, I'm wondering why my copy of SPlat isn't loading these objects. Any idea why it isn't?
post edited by mwmcbroom - 2018/03/08 18:15:43
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Cactus Music
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Re: SPLAT: Just trying to record some stuff. What am I not doing?
2018/03/08 23:49:56
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It is there,, it's a matter of finding the little line. Did you try Shift B? that is show hide buss pane. Roll your mouse pointer to the bottom of the Sonar window until you get a pointer icon the looks like a = with an arrow above and below. Left click and drag up. The other possibility is your graphics are out of wack and your not seeing the bottom of the Sonar window. But a bigger mystery is when you say it does not show in console view? For me it actually always plunks itself right in the middle. But it to can go off screen to the right and it's the same deal with the mouse pointer. The Buss Pane is a separate window from the track pane but the two are always connected.
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