Midi "latency" test? Help!

I just want to clarify
You did understand the MIDI is late, not the audio, right?
 
Edit: After reading again, I guess you did.
 
FYI
Audio interface: Behringer X32 Rack USB Card
No midi interface, USB connected direct to computer
 
Thx
 

Not a MIDI problem. You need a low latency audio interface.

dougalex
My midi is 20 milliseconds later than the recorded sound of the key press noise
What is your results?

Discussed many times, but since you ask explicitly I answer explicitly
 
Here is my setup and all relevant settings (check what you have there, if you still have the question, let us know these settings):
* Sonar Platinum 2017.10, running on Win10 64bit
* RME Babyface pro as the audio interface
* MPK Mini as the MIDI controller
 
Settings in Sonar:
* audio:
- Driver Mode: ASIO
- ASIO buffer size: 256
- ASIO reported latency: Input 6.3, Output 6.7, Round trip 13 (575 samples)
- Sync and caching (Record Latency Adjustment): Manual offset 0, Use ASIO reported latency 575 set.
- Project clock source: audio
* MIDI:
Audio / Sync and Caching / Full Chase Lock, Timing offset : 0
 
Project:
- one audio track, input from Mic
- one MIDI track, input from MIDI Omni
(NO FXes, NO SoftSynth)
 
After recording both tracks in parallel: recorded MIDI notes are at the loud part of the recorded click (~2-4ms after the beginning of the signal, depending from how "fast" I was pressing keys).
 
--------------------
 
INDEPENDENT from real latency/delays, Sonar RECORD Audio and MIDI with compensation by what it think the latency was. The idea: you play/sing along already recorded material, so you play/sing "late" in absolute time. Sonar compensate that by putting recorded material in the time line BEFORE the time it really receive the signal.
 
--------------------
 
So, if you have problems:
* check all mentioned settings, may be you will see something unusual
* do audio loopback tests. Described at many places. Simple one with special program, to check that reported latency is correct. If you have only 2 inputs, record mono source and in parallel the loop throw Sonar. If you have more then 2 inputs, the best approach is to record "stereo" input with the same signal on both channels, one channel directly and another "looped" throw Sonar back to the third input. Check that Sonar aligns recorded audio properly (independent how big the latency is). If something is not right with automatic settings, you can adjust manually (Manual offset)
* finally, you can manually put MIDI where you want it with Timing offset option.
 
--------------------
Note, that several times I had real MIDI delay from my DP and e-drums (at the same time, my Keystation and MPK Mini was working without that delay). Rebooting the computer was solving that problem. I still wonder how that is possible.
 

Also, if you know what the difference is, you can set one of your 'nudges' to that value and easily fix the late (or early) clip.

I wish Cakewalk had a calibration capability which could synchronize (or report) audio, midi, and virtual instruments as needed.  I can live with vst effects latency's as I do all my tracking before adding effects.
 
Just a thought...

Cactus Music
The conclusion was almost all name brand audio interfaces using ASIO report properly to Sonar so your timing offset will not need manual adjustment.

I've never seen a driver that reported sample-accurate input/record latency. All have some 'hidden' firmware/hardware latency that is not included, or they add a fudge factor and over-report. Most will be within 1ms, but if you want sample-accurate record compensation, you'll almost certainly need a Manual Offset. For ASIO, using the free CEntrance latency tester mentioned earlier is a lot quicker than re-recording and counting samples as you nudge the audio.

I hope it was clear
I was NOT using any VST soft synth
I was ONLY recording a midi note (WITHOUT ANY PLUGINS)
I recorded simultaneously:
a) Audio track recording a mic placed closely to capture the thump of me hitting the key on the keyboard,
b) Midi track recording the midi note of the SAME key press (no soft synth loaded at all)
 
I then zoom in to see if they are simultaneous and to my surprise (instead of the audio track being late) THE MIDI NOTE (the midi note "blob") IS LATE by 20 ms
 
Still do not understand why the midi note blob would appear later than the wave blob of the mic that is recording the thump of me hitting the key.
 
 

I just tried the same test again tonight
 
Same project, BUT NOW it is behaving as I expected it to: The "spike of the recorded thump of the key strike" and the "recorded midi blob" are essentially simultaneous.
 
I think azslow3 above mentioned reboot had remedied a similar situation where the midi was delayed.
 
So right now I am thinking my original weird results was a situation where I needed a reboot.
 
I will have to test again periodically to confirm.
 
THANK YOU FOR THE REPLIES! 

Cactus Music
FYI.. out of curiosity I plugged a mike in and performed the key click test, I had to zoom waaayyy in to see it was a little late I think it computes to around 2 ms. This was using a Roland A 41 USB. 
 
The amount of delay the OP is getting I'll put my money on a plug in.
I think normally with no plug ins involve the Midi latency of most systems is between 2-5ms. And I do believe this is 100% to do with the midi diver and the controller itself.
If you notice, some controllers come with Factory USB midi drivers, and some just use a generic driver. I am convinced midi USB drivers are just as important in the same way Audio USB drivers are to a systems performance. Then there is the internal workings of the controller itself. Not all are created equally just like audio interfaces. 
Manufactures never post this information. 
 
I know for sure my Roland keyboard is more responsive than my Akai Synth Station or my Yamaha drums.   And for sure my Yamaha Drums the latency is very noticeable as a digital delay if you monitor the VST and the brain. So I only monitor the brain while tracking. I don't have that option with my keyboard controllers as they have no internal sound. I really don't "feel" any latency while tracking with headphones with either keyboard and generally my notes land within a 1/64 of where they belong. 
This is not the case with the Yamaha drums as the timing is always out.  I will test my other 2 controllers  to see how they stack up. I even have an old Korg poly 8000 midi keyboard I could try.  

I have a Roland TDK11 kit. Curious to know how you are able to monitor your Yamaha’s brain while tracking. Are you recording Yamaha output (audio? Midi?) along with other tracks in Sonar? How do you listen to both Sonar output AND direct monitor your Yamaha at the same time? I’m midi-triggering Addictive Drums 2 via a Focusrite 2i4.

Of course! The answer is right in front of my face: my 8-channel Yamaha mixer. Doh!

Thanks for the brain jog. Must be lack of coffee. 😳