input echo echo echo

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Benjitara
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2018/03/29 11:48:50 (permalink)

input echo echo echo

hi guys
I'm experiencing an echo or delay when I hit the input echo button to try to hear myself play along with the rest of the track while recording... i'm getting a delay or echo all the time, while I've tried to read the support information the language looks like Chinese for all it's worth. Can someone explain in  simple terms if there is any solution to this that I may not have explored...
cheers
ben
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    promidi
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 12:02:15 (permalink)
    Can you tell us a bit about your setup.

    Which version and build number of Sonar you're using
    What audio interface you are using.
    What driver mode you're using
    What bit depth, sample rate and your effective latency as reported by Sonar?
    Your PC specs (CPU, ram, etc)
    Does your audio interface have a "Direct Monitor" switch...?

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    #2
    Benjitara
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 12:09:11 (permalink)
    I run sonar professional on a windows 8.1 64 bit Acer I use a Roland ua-25 ex it has a direct monitor volume knob
    #3
    Benjitara
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 12:09:53 (permalink)
    I use asio drivers or something like that
    #4
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 14:45:22 (permalink)
    You can check in Sonar Preferences (under the Edit tab) to see what Sonar is reporting for your Total Round Trip Latency, and you can check in your ASIO drivers (accessed either through the ASIO Control Panel button in Preferences or for some drivers there is a separate icon to launch their driver control UI through a program that you find in the Windows System Tray area - which is at the bottom right corner of your Windows Task Bar).
     
    Anyways, during recording/tracking, you need to have your ASIO Buffer Size set small enough to where you don't have noticeable delay when hitting notes.  I happen to use an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 samples, which gives me a Total Round Trip Latency as reported by Sonar, of around 10 milliseconds.  I COULD go with a smaller size, but at some point that could result in some glitches in the sound processing through the ASIO drivers, so I completely avoid that by settling on a 128 sample size - neither the computer nor the interface have to work too hard, and I cannot detect any delay when trying to record.
     
    When I finish recording, and move on to mixing, there are different conditions - principally, there is no longer a concern about recording delay, because I am no longer recording.  It is at THIS point in the workflow that I need/want a MUCH larger ASIO Buffer Size, because then I can load up the project with effects that by their very nature need a large buffer size to process the effects properly.  (things like a convoluted reverb will typically be in this effect category, and other types of effects, such as linear phase types can also dictate the use of a large ASIO Buffer Size).  SOOOO - when mixing, I always bump up my ASIO Buffer Size to either 1024 or 2048, depending on which audio interface I am using (some allow only up to 1024, while others allow up to 2048).
     
    Another possibility is that while recording, you have one or more effects loaded into the project, that as noted above will introduce a large latency, by their very design/nature.  An easy way to determine this is to see if your delay goes instantly away if you temporarily hit the letter 'E' on your computer keyboard and then try playing some notes.  That letter 'E' is the Sonar shortcut key that will toggle On/Off the bypassing of all effects in the active project.  IF the delay goes away when the effects are bypassed, then you KNOW that one or more of the loaded effects are causing this delay issue, and you can work through disabling one at a time til you find the culprit, etc....  You can turn effects processing back on if bypassed, simply by hitting the letter 'E' again - it simply toggles all loaded effects On or Off.
     
    I hope the above helps, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #5
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 14:48:47 (permalink)
    Sorry forgot to mention one other potential - you mentioned ASIO - IF you are using a driver called ASIO4ALL, that is really a driver that still consumes your CPU's processing power to do its thing, and that can still cause delay issues.  Most folks doing projects of any size/complexity tend to pick up a dedicated audio interface to handle the ASIO processing, as the dedicated circuitry takes the processing load for streaming audio off of your CPU, and that greatly improves sound quality in almost all cases.  A decent audio interface, such as by Focusrite, can be had for usually somewhere between $100-$200, and would come with a couple of XLR/Line inputs and decent analog/digital converters.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #6
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 14:50:59 (permalink)
    AND, one more last 'last thing' (I haven't had my coffee yet this morning, apologies. :)
     
    You might also check out using the PDC button (Plugin Delay Compensation) in Sonar, which will try to adjust things to make up for some plugin delay.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #7
    sock monkey
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 17:57:46 (permalink)
    You should not engage "input echo" while tracking audio unless you have a smoking system with a RME interface.
    Yes you will hear your Round trip Latency otherwise. 
    You monitor using your audio interface direct monitoring system and you will not hear the delay. 
    You do need to use it when recording midi so you can hear your VST. 
    The only other time you would turn it on is if you want to hear any plug ins used on that audio track,, like a Guitar sim.. but to do that as I said, you'll need a top end system and asio driver. 

    Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio   
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    #8
    Benjitara
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 22:35:55 (permalink)
    Ok thanks guys for your feedback. 
    I'm not sure i'm using the direct monitoring feature on the audio interface right... I have a volume knob on the interface but I've never heard myself playing or singing when recording...
    I'll attempt to put into practice what you guys have said...
    Thanks so much for your knowledge and time.
    cheers
    Ben
    #9
    sock monkey
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/29 23:17:41 (permalink)
    You should hear yourself in the headphones and your studio monitors as well. I see a little button marked MON SW possibly that turns on the monitors? When in doubt, read the manual. 
     


    Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio   
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    #10
    mettelus
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/30 00:27:05 (permalink)
    With direct monitoring on, the interface will pass the signal directly to the output. Those signal(s) you do not want to hear from SONAR back at you, so not only do you want input echo off, but also mute those tracks in some cases. Check levels first, but SONAR WILL record an armed and muted track.

    You may need to nudge the audio after the fact and/or adjust manual buffer offset, but try the above first.

    The direct monitoring knob should adjust how much signal from the inputs is coming out, and may only go through headphones on some interfaces, so check the user manual on recommended usage.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #11
    Daibhidh
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/30 00:42:29 (permalink)
    I'm using a slow laptop and Edirol UA-4FX and direct monitoring works for me with most plug-ins. But you have to set the buffer correctly. Obviously not an ideal setup, but I'm using this until I get my new studio pc tower.
    #12
    Benjitara
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    Re: input echo echo echo 2018/03/30 01:27:37 (permalink)
    Ok, so I can hear myself over the direct monitoring input now which is great, (although it's not as loud as i'd like it but i'm fine with it). I've changed the asio buffering down to 144ms which is giving me a tighter feel to the monitoring too.
    Now all I've got to do is find a bloody way to play acoustic guitar in total unison throughout a track to be able to double it effectively so it feels like a stereo track.
     
    #13
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