Helpful ReplyLocked[Solved] - Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR!

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Serious_Noize!
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2018/05/20 23:03:20 (permalink)

[Solved] - Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR!

     First off, I was thrilled that Bandlab had purchased Cakewalk properties and was going to move forward with Cakewalk and Sonar. The FREE Sonar sounded really great! 
 
At the same time, I am a SONAR LICENSED OWNER. 
 
So I created a Bandlab account. No problem there, I checked everything on the settings. I thought I had it all set right. 
I simply shared a song of mine and someone following me had made a really ADULT "SAME CHORDS AND BEAT" street version of my song that I never give anyone permission to do so. I blocked that person, contacted BANDLAB, I thought that was the end of it. 
 
But even after contacting BandLab MULTIPLE TIMES and this person is on BLOCK, when I log in "This PERSON'S POST ALONG WITH THE MUSIC I MENTION IS STILL THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!". Yeah it says "BLOCKED, But It damn sure is not being blocked! So I guess popularity or monetary value ways better than newbies who post their music where the rules go. 
 
I really wanted to like BandLab. But considering the circumstances, I will no longer be using it. BandLab considers EVERYTHING YOU POST OR RECORD AS PUBLIC DOMAIN in my opinion. The issue is : "I recorded NOTHING I SHARED AND CLICKED THE DO NOT SHARE CHECKS & BOXES WITH ANY OF : THEIR SOFTWARE". I recorded it with my OWNED SONAR SOFTWARE. 
 
Either way, I prefer CAKEWALK SONAR and will not be using BANDLAB "Analytical USE AND SELL" software. 
 
That may not be the case, but it is the impression that I am getting now. 
I had a problem with Bandlab's site to begin with and it was a REAL quick response when they purchased Cakewalks entities, Now it's like not anybody on there cares at all with my issue. 
 
Either way, I bet this gets deleted or LEFT AND BLOCKED from others seeing. But it is my experience THUS FAR with dealing with the SITE BANDLAB and like I said, the music I posted on their site was recorded using my LICENSED SONAR PLATINUM. So I will continue using that. 
 
I Bet there will be a bunch of smart asses replying to this, but I suspect they are IN HOUSE SPEAKERS. 
 
Those are my thoughts, and that was MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR dealing with BandLab. 
 
It's NOT GOOD. And that is the end experience that I wish to convey WITH MY OPINION. 
 
Have a Wonderful day everyone!
 
Bobby
 
 
edit: OP advised me in a PM the issues have been solved by BandLab - scook
post edited by scook - 2018/05/23 15:39:06

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#1
Daibhidh
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 00:13:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Jarsve 2018/05/23 13:17:01
Serious_Noize!
I simply shared a song of mine and someone following me had made a really ADULT "SAME CHORDS AND BEAT" street version of my song


Once you share it, it's out there in the ether.

There's a reason some artists refuse to share stems.
#2
noynekker
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 00:20:46 (permalink)
Yikes, Serious Noize . . . I really hope what you're alluding to here is not the case !
Personally, I haven't shared anything on Bandlab yet, and probably won't.
I can't help thinking that your example is the worst case scenario, but it really makes me wonder about Bandlab sharing. I think if you share, you leave your music open to collaboration, that's what it's about, and now I'm not sure there's any proper controls in place to avoid it.
 

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#3
Grem
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 00:32:27 (permalink)
I shared a song on there and it wasn't long before a guy put "weed smoking Rap lyrics" to it! I had to laugh!!
 
I never thought this would happen. But once it did I keep my stuff private now.

Grem

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#4
John T
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 00:57:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2018/05/21 23:53:35
I've got no interest at all in the collaboration platform, myself. But there's nothing forcing anyone using the DAW to also use the BandLab collaboration site.

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#5
Daibhidh
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 01:25:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Jarsve 2018/05/23 16:04:54
Think of it like giving paper to children. You never know what they're going to draw with it.
That's what happens if you share your music. Expect people to set it on fire, get mud on it, etc.
Only share what you're prepared to be used and abused.
Anything really personal and precious to you, I'd NEVER share publicly. At least not the stems.
#6
Leadfoot
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 01:35:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby iamjcole 2018/05/21 02:36:01
If you don't check the option to allow "forking" when you upload the song, they can't take it and change it. I also make sure anything I post is copyrighted.
#7
mettelus
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 02:20:40 (permalink)
With the internet, anything posted anywhere can be digitally nabbed and unless it gains attention you will probably never know it (and jurisdiction can hinder copyright anyway). About the only protection is don't post at all (sorta destroys the point of sharing music) or don't post stems (as mentioned above). I haven't even looked at Bandlab yet, but the idea of anyone in the world accessing stems is scary.

I had seen the "forking" mentioned before, but not sure how clear that is on their site. The OP is concerning, since it is not clear if a blocked user can still access you, but that is moot with a free system since they could just create another account anyway.

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#8
michael diemer
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 03:03:57 (permalink)
I don't plan on posting anything there. I write classical music. I doubt that anyone on the "classical" part of their forum actually knows what classical music is. I've seen covers of "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" there, and most of the stuff is heavy on drum kits - fine if you're writing pop or rap, but not classical.
 
We need to keep in mind that this is a different culture, one with perhaps rather fluid views of intellectual property rights. Perhaps we can help them change that, but I wouldn't bet on it. In the meantime, it's good to bring this stuff to their attention. If they don't hear about it, there's no reason for them to change.

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#9
iamjcole
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 03:09:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2018/05/21 03:58:54
I'm sorry for the frustration. You seem to have found an issue with the BandLab blocking feature and we're looking into it now. Once you block a user their content should be removed from your feed immediately. Something isn't working and we'll dig in and figure out what happened and fix it ASAP. 
 
Regarding your song being used by someone else, that should only be possible via BandLab if you allow forks when you save and publish your song, if you save a song to a band, or if you invite a collaborator to your song. Allowing forks is like opening your song up to creative commons so anyone can use it as inspiration and do whatever they see fit with it. You can posts songs without allowing collaboration, or even just keep songs private. Or as mentioned earlier in this thread, you don't have to use BandLab at all. You can just use your BandLab account to access BandLa Assistant to get your Cakewalk by BandLab updates. 
 
I'll reply to your support ticket now. 
#10
Daibhidh
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 04:05:27 (permalink)
iamjcole,

A few thoughts. What was described above taking a song and making an adult version is clearly troll behaviour. If Bandlab wants to limit this on their platform there are several options.

1) Police everything yourself (Time intensive and experience) or
2) Allow the original artist to revoke forked versions they deem not genuine attempts or offensive.
3) Require everyone who signs up to use a cellphone so it's not so easy for trolls to create multiple accounts.

Just sharing my thoughts. I think it's great you're looking into this!
#11
Grem
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 04:17:55 (permalink)
Daibhidh
iamjcole,

A few thoughts. What was described above taking a song and making an adult version is clearly troll behaviour. If Bandlab wants to limit this on their platform there are several options.

2) Allow the original artist to revoke forked versions they deem not genuine attempts or offensive.

Just sharing my thoughts. I think it's great you're looking into this!
 



 
+1 to #2 above.
 
And talk about customer service!!!

Grem

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#12
iamjcole
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 05:06:15 (permalink)
Thanks Daibhidh and Grem! 
 
I hear you and appreciate the suggestions. As with any collaboration, there is trust and risk involved. Allowing forks relinquishes control. If someone makes something you don't like with the project on which you've allowed forks, other than messaging the other user, there's nothing you can do at this point. Any content on BandLab can be reported and we follow up on all reports.
 
Art is subjective. We won't stand for harassment or bullying on BandLab but we try not to censor or police the music posted. Offensive comments and posts are taken down regularly, but with songs, what's art to one can be offensive to another. That's the nature of art and music. We hope to provide a platform where creators and fans can communicate safely and positively about the music posted. 
 
I haven't heard the song in question to have a personal opinion, but it's quite possible that the adult version of the song the other user made wasn't trolling, it could simply be the kind of music he makes. 
#13
GjB
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 05:12:09 (permalink)
Leadfoot
I also make sure anything I post is copyrighted.

Just a quick question, please?
There are instructions and resources on the internet about how to copyright music. I also have some classical type music from an old musical keyboard years ago which I composed. Do you have a quick step-by-step copyright process you could share - with some links to the resource or authority you use? I've been meaning to copyright a few tracks - but keep putting it off. (It depends on the belief in one's work, plus costs, ambition, etc., of course to actually decide to copyright in the first place.) Thanks.

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fireberd
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 10:41:35 (permalink)
I've done about a dozen song demo sessions for a "retired" Nashville songwriter who had some success in the late 60's to early 80's.  He belongs to BMI and I get the impression he feels BMI will protect any of his songs.
 
As a side benefit, he is a "student" of the late Nashville producer Billy Sherrill.  He has done some major label producing and I've learned a lot about recording and mixing from him.
 
 
 
 

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#15
mudgel
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 11:05:50 (permalink)
Leadfoot
If you don't check the option to allow "forking" when you upload the song, they can't take it and change it. I also make sure anything I post is copyrighted.


Despite copyrighting your material I believe that putting it on the net and sharing it under a Creative Commons licence may negate the copyright. If it’s important to you which it clearly is as you’ve gone to the trouble to copyright your material, you ought to check it out to be certain.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#16
tobiaslindahl
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 11:27:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2018/05/21 23:56:13
Copyright is pretty much useless these days is it not? You could be Prince, Metallica or Avicii and have your music downloaded, copied, ripped, reworked, mixed etc etc without any kind of action taken for the most part. Some home made tunes by amatuers or unknown people being "protected" is nothing more than words on paper. It means nothing at all to anyone. 
If people does not want anyone to mess with their music, there is only one solution and that is to not let anyone hear it in the first place. Making money on music is totally impossible today unless you are in the top tier so not sure what the copyright really provides to begin with for the common man. 
 
Better approach is to appreciate someone liking it enough to mess with it creating new versions. Might increase the nr of people hearing it even, if that is why you put it out there I mean. That is about as much you can ever expect to get from posting your music online. Trying to fight the reality of things is rather futile.
If you dont think you have written the next nr 1 on Billboard, worrying about copyrights etc is a waste of time and resources. That is just my very humble opinion of course :) 
#17
Phoen1xPJ
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 12:06:17 (permalink)
US Copyright costs... the last full album I copyrighted was $55.

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#18
bdickens
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 12:14:16 (permalink)
Copyright law varies greatly from country to country. Here in the US, a work is automaticaly copyrighted as soon as it is put into some tangible form (in this case, either written or recorded). Of course, in the event of an infringement action, you have to be able to prove that you own the rights. And it is unlikely that any attorney will take your case unless you have registered with the Copyright office.

Byron Dickens
#19
Meng
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 12:21:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby simeon 2018/05/21 14:08:02
Hey bobby - really sorry to hear you had a negative experience.
 
As Jeremy mentioned - there is a bug with the block feature that occurs in certain situations and you experienced one which we are working on resolving asap. 
 
"BandLab considers EVERYTHING YOU POST OR RECORD AS PUBLIC DOMAIN in my opinion." <- this is definitely not true and may be a misunderstanding! We are very protective of our artists and what they create, and our users have complete access to keeping things private or to share it publicly but not forkable so all rights are reserved and no-one can download their stems etc.
 
We do understand that the concept of "forkable" is confusing to some users as it's BandLab-specific terminology, and we are working to make this option easier to understand to ensure that one doesn't accidentally turn it on - just like other platforms do before you license it out with Creative Commons etc...!
 
I do thank you for trying it all out and giving your honest feedback, though.
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Grem
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 13:16:17 (permalink)
iamjcole
Thanks Daibhidh and Grem! 
 
 
Art is subjective. We won't stand for harassment or bullying on BandLab but we try not to censor or police the music posted.
 
That's the nature of art and music.  
 

 
Point well made. And I agree. Thanks for taking to time to help us understand.

Grem

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#21
SimpleManZ
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 13:39:16 (permalink)
bdickens
Copyright law varies greatly from country to country. Here in the US, a work is automaticaly copyrighted as soon as it is put into some tangible form (in this case, either written or recorded). Of course, in the event of an infringement action, you have to be able to prove that you own the rights. And it is unlikely that any attorney will take your case unless you have registered with the Copyright office.

Somehow I get the impression the OP thinks using a 'paid' license Sonar Platinum automatically makes a creation copyrighted.
Lets say you have an idea to write a song on paper but no pen. Aha, you see a pen laying there, so you pick it up and use it to write your idea. Then someone comes along and read your poem and says, "I like it-but that is my pen you used-which means I own the poem"
#22
Rasure
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 15:53:57 (permalink)
You can`t copyright chords, rhythm or song titles. Only melodies and lyrics can be fully protected by copyright :-) 

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#23
stratman70
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 16:44:46 (permalink)
@Bobby
 
That is a bummer for sure.
But As mentioned by others and I will elaborate on it: Just use the Desktop software. You are only denying yourself bug fixes and enhancements if you don't. As most of us and you probably have done is leave Plat orig installed to maintain plugs, etc and use the upgraded CWbyBL
 
Just a thought. Yes I would be bummed also.

 
 
#24
Anderton
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 17:51:10 (permalink)
stratman70
@Bobby
 
That is a bummer for sure.
But As mentioned by others and I will elaborate on it: Just use the Desktop software. You are only denying yourself bug fixes and enhancements if you don't. As most of us and you probably have done is leave Plat orig installed to maintain plugs, etc and use the upgraded CWbyBL
 
Just a thought. Yes I would be bummed also.




To be fair he enabled forking, and the lack of a block was a bug that BL is investigating

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#25
poetnprophet
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 20:55:52 (permalink)
For sure the process is not very straight forward if you're new to Bandlab.  Many have pointed out that their uploads end up in the wrong category, or they didn't know it was forkable, etc.  Again, we would like to see Bandlab have more instructions/guidance on what to do with it.
 
The blocking issue aside, I think it really needs to be pointed out that anything you do on the internet at any time is subject to things you might not like, whether it's piracy, defamation, or just flat out trolling.  There are some good things Bandlab can do to help maintain a healthy community, however it's not their fault somebody else took your project and did something with it you don't like.  You're the one who posted it.  And really, if you think about it....it should be flattering that someone outside of your genre was inspired by your art.  THAT is really what Bandlab is about.
 
Dave

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#26
slartabartfast
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 21:02:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2018/05/21 23:58:09
To be clear, posting your work to BandLab is not exactly identical to using a creative commons license, although it does involve granting various licenses. It is unfortunate that BandLab has decided to use their own jargon (forking) to describe the process of inviting collaboration. It is even more unfortunate that users will not immediately recognize that this process, in addition to inviting "collaboration," effectively licenses the creation of derivative works. Once you give someone permission to alter your work, he has the right to copyright his variation in its own right, and lacking specific language in the license, you largely lose any ability to restrict his use or publication of the derivative work. In countries where a non-transferable "moral right" to maintain the artistic integrity of your work is recognized, you may be able to limit egregiously damaging modification, but in US law at least, moral rights are only recognized for certain works of visual arts.
 
Whether BandLab will recognize your concerns is largely an issue of company policy, but arguably the work once altered under the license terms on their site will probably be considered to be a derivative work created under a valid license which you have no right to rescind. They may remove it from their site, but the author who in good faith (at least to his belief that he had a valid license) messes up your song will likely be able to do anything he wants with his version for the duration of his newly minted copyright. 
 
If you have not spent an adequate amount of time reading and understanding the terms of service and related binding legal contracts issued by various online posting sites, you are well advised not to post your material on them.
 
Rather than repeat an earlier post on this and other issues see:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3742329
 
#27
msmcleod
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 21:56:13 (permalink)
slartabartfast
.... It is unfortunate that BandLab has decided to use their own jargon (forking) to describe the process of inviting collaboration...



Forking is a pretty commonly used term, as is branching, or even the term "fork a branch"... maybe not as much in music collaboration, but it is very common in OpenSource code collaboration and I suspect other collaborative projects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(software_development)
 
M.
#28
Schafe
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 22:14:22 (permalink)
Well for fork sakes..the only forking I ever done was into my mouth and throwing the odd straw bail around. Some of these names and terms should be kept were they belong and lets just call it what it is. Share? Don't Share?

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#29
msmcleod
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Re: Issue with BANDLAB, why I will no longer use it or their free SONAR! 2018/05/21 22:26:39 (permalink)
Schafe
Well for fork sakes..the only forking I ever done was into my mouth and throwing the odd straw bail around. Some of these names and terms should be kept were they belong and lets just call it what it is. Share? Don't Share?




Sharing isn't quite the same though... I can share a song with you so you can listen to it, but does that mean I've given you permission to take it apart and create your own song based on it? I'd say no it doesn't.
 
That's what forking means: you "fork" your own version of the song based on an original.
 
So if I allow forking, I'm saying, "Go ahead and help me finish this, or do your own version".
 
From what the OP says, I'm not totally convinced he actually enabled forking. I've shared 3 songs so far, but only allowed forking on one of them - so this process works as far as enabling one and not the other.
 
What I read from Bobby's post was someone had copied his song another way. Which does raise an interesting scenario... if your song is shared for listening but NOT for collaboration, but someone samples it to get around that restriction, what protection do you have?
 
M.
 
#30
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