Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
- Status: offline
Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
This is definitely a newb question, but I figure I would get your responses anyways.
For those of you who do recording for a living.
After you are done with the actual recording process and you feel comfortable to move onto the mixing stage. Do you keep the band/artist/performer in the studio while you go through that process.
Lets say you have a 10 song album. Wouldn't that be a lot for the band to sit through. Hours and hours of mixing, while people have lives, jobs, families to attend to.
What are your experiences and is there a set method that you personally use.
Thanks again,
Vokalzz
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/01 07:02:05
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/02 07:26:14
Once you have got guidelines as to what the artist wants, maybe aided by a couple of reference songs, there is no practical reason for any of them to be there while you're mixing. And there are some very good reasons to mix alone: - In the long run it will save time, not having to constantly answer questions
- You are free from having to assuage the fragile ego's of band members who feel their particular instrument or voice isn't loud enough in the mix
- You're free to take breaks whenever YOU want
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10654
- Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
- Location: TeXaS
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/01 14:03:56
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/02 07:26:16
+1
Having the band in the room for mixing/mastering is a good recipe for going crazy. Hell, it can take me a while to figure out what needs to be done in the mix half the time - now multiply that by 4 or 5 musicians that don't know squat about the process. Mostly what you get is "turn my instrument up."
After the mixing, let them make their comments so you can fix those. Much cleaner way to work.
Also, but some limits on their requests for changes up front, or you'll find yourself trying to paint pastel yellow over three coats of black.
|
eikelbijter
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1002
- Joined: 2003/11/13 22:23:52
- Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/01 19:51:27
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Tom Riggs 2018/07/02 01:53:30
It all depends on the artists. Some have no interest in the mixing/mastering, some INSIST on being there (and of course get charged accordingly!), some want to but have no business being there (they get referred to someone ELSE to mix/master LOL).
No preconceived rules baby!
R
Xeon E3-1231V3, 16GB RAM, 480GB 840EVO SSD, MOTU 2480MK3, 424PCI w/ Sonar PlatinumDell XPS 18, i5, 12GB RAM, 500GB SSD+128GB SSD, Roland VS-100 w/ Sonar Platinum
Dell XPS 13, i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB 840EVO SSD, Zoom UAC-2, Sonar Platinum
http://www.RicoBelled.com/
|
Larry Jones
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 834
- Joined: 2007/10/11 02:45:33
- Location: Southern California
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/02 06:50:38
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/02 07:26:23
If you have a paying client, and they want to be in on the mixing, then let them. It's their project, after all, not yours. Of course, if they're smart, they will have a designated band member or "producer" to sit with you for the mix. But even if they don't, the customer's always right.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
|
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/02 07:45:50
(permalink)
This would be a hard decision for me. As im thinking about converting into being a music engineer. As "Bristol_jonesey" and "AT" pointed out, there would be a clashing of ears, so to speak. I mean, doesn't the mixing engineer get paid for their artistry in production. Isn't it like painting pictures. That would be one of the reasons why a artist/band would goto a specific producer. Right? and if everyone is present during the mixing phase, then that could compromise the artists touch on the canvas.
Then again, I would understand why a paid artist/band would want to be present if they actually took their music seriously.
My fear would be this.......
Lets say I tell the band that I work alone during the mixing and mastering phase and they agree that is ok. When it comes time to show them my finished product, what if they absolutely love the sounds, but hates the way I mixed it. That would be back tracking right? Because now I would have to spend more time adjusting everything for the sake of the client. How time consuming, draining, and daunting that would be to have to go through that.
I guess what im trying to say, considering everything Ive mentioned. What would be the best way to avoid all this. Is there a way to avoid this type of conflict all together.
Unless im totally over analyzing the whole process, I mean I don't have a recording studio yet, so is this a thing?
|
msmcleod
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 920
- Joined: 2004/01/27 07:15:30
- Location: Scotland
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/02 08:27:06
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:23:11
I guess this all depends on the remit of the engineer, and how much artistic license they've got in the production.
If I was the engineer, I'd rather be left to it and avoid all the usual band politics that could arise.
However having being on the other side of the fence, I'd rather be there. After securing a deal a couple of decades ago, we left the mixing/production to the record company's own engineer/producer only to find they'd removed complete parts at their own discretion (despite me giving them detailed notes). Overall the end product was great, but I wish I'd been there to argue the point. They did offer to let us be there, but we couldn't afford the trip at the time.
Mark McLeod Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
|
ProjectM
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3941
- Joined: 2004/02/10 09:32:12
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/02 08:43:06
(permalink)
☼ Best Answerby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:22:55
Never! If a band want to sit in on the entire mix they can find someone else to do it. But that's me. I have enough work as it is so to take on a job like that I can allow to have it on my terms. Now, in an atempt to be fair, I try to include the artist as much as I think is neccesary for their egos and mine, but I find that most often they can't be bothered to sit in on the mix anyway - unless they are newbies, but they find cheaper alternatives than me, usually. I do, however, let one or more band memebers sit in on a 3-4 hour rough mix session just to set things up at first. If they don't want to do that, I do the rough mix on my own and send them a high resolution mp3 to get some quick feedback. Usually they they say: "sounds great, but more cowbell, please". Then I mix according to what their initial feedback is and add in special instructions - like "delay on the lead guitar in the chorus of song X1, phaser on the drums on the intro of song x2 and autotune the bad singing on X3". Then I have (as few as possible of) them in the studio for a mix review and final adjustments. But if they can't be present for that I send them the mix on every song and receive a detailed list of changes in return. Then I implement the changes and send them the new mixes. Depending on their budget, this final process is repeated a few times but that doesn't happen very often any more. On very rare occasions I am working with someone who prove them selves to be an asset in a mix situation, who understand the process, when to shut up and when to contribute. That way we can bounce ideas off each other in the process which can be both fun and educational. I think that this is the way things are done these days. I work with people all over the world, as a sound person and as a musician, with music and with film/versioning, and it seems to be the standard procedure. If you don't want people to hang around in the studio when mixing, let them know that the price for the mix can easily double because of the distraction and as long as you do a good job with their music, they never really complain about saving the extra money 
post edited by ProjectM - 2018/07/05 20:33:59
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/03 00:18:03
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:23:14
It depends on the person.
I like to get the mix as best as I can before they come and listen. If the client is clueless about mixing, go home and come back later.
But I've worked with people who were very good at making calls on the mix and having them there made my job easier.
In other words, you need to decide which hats you are wearing.
In a small studio we often wear all of them.
The recording Engineer takes direction from the Producer. Are you the Engineer and the Producer? Or is the client producing? This needs to be clear before you start.
|
Slugbaby
Max Output Level: -33.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4172
- Joined: 2004/10/01 13:57:37
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/03 14:17:11
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:23:16
I have been involved with 6 albums where I had financial interest in the final product.
I was in the studio for every hour of the mixing and mastering on 5 of them. I stayed quiet 95% of the time (as there's a reason that THIS engineer has been hired), but occasionally questioned the decisions or made suggestions.
It's a balance of ownership between letting the mixer do his thing (there's a reason he's been hired) versus me getting the end product that I'm paying for.
The one album that was mixed without my attendance/attention was such a disaster that I thought the stereo was broken. And these were producers and engineers that have worked on million-selling albums. Bad communication was the likely culprit, and I can't afford to make that mistake again.
|
poetnprophet
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 128
- Joined: 2016/07/23 12:56:57
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/03 16:11:22
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:23:18
I see it like this: if I was a chef, I wouldn't want my customers watching as I cook. If i'm writing a novel, I wouldn't want to be watched. Same if I was a painter, mechanic, a cabinet maker, a landscaper, or nearly any type of artistic work. Yes there are exceptions to this, but nobody wants to work with someone watching over their shoulder.
There's a lot of other good points here, it really depends on who is asking and why, but I always urge clients to let me do my thing on my terms.
|
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5694
- Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
- Location: Richmond Virginia USA
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/03 16:19:36
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:23:19
I like to do the mix myself.
Afterwards, listening sessions are cool where you make a copy of the cwp file and mess with it building it up from no fx to finished for the artists. They can give feedback about what they do and don't like.
Usually there is a ton they do like and a sliver they do not like. Learning that sliver can help close they gap between great and awesome.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
|
sock monkey
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 547
- Joined: 2011/11/06 12:12:08
- Location: Tree Top Studios
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/03 16:28:05
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Vokalzz 2018/07/04 20:23:20
As Cactus said, it all depends on who has been appointed the producer.
In Most little studios the owner does everything. In a big studio it's rare that one person would engineer and produce.
Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.
|
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/04 20:43:46
(permalink)
I think ProjectM hit it on the nose for me.
The other answers are exactly on as well. I feel as though there is a general conscientious here with all of your guys answers. It seems to me that not having the client in the studio during the mixing phase is crucial as there will be less distraction and less time wasted. Time is money right?
You guys brought up some excellent points referring to the delegations of job titles and responsibilities. Since I would be primarily doing all of the work myself, Producing and mixing. I feel that doing the work alone, while communicating and sending ruff mixes would be more valuable to me as the primary overseer of any material im working on for clients.
Keeping open source communication with the client during this process would save me time and allow me to gain feedback from the client to make adjusts as I need. Keeping the integrity of what the client wants but at the same time allocating my time and resources productively without any distraction.
Great answers guys!!!
and I greatly appreciate all of your advice!!
What a excellent community we have here of intelligent and talented people.
However, If there is any information that has not been talked about or discussed, please feel free to leave additional comments about this process and the way that you handle these type of encounters in your studio.
Thanks!
-Vokalzz-
|
Vokalzz
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2013/07/27 18:29:40
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/04 20:57:24
(permalink)
Something I forgot to mention here.
If I was apart of a big studio that had different jobs and titles like "cactus" mentioned previously, then I would assume there would be a different process. Independent studios that have one, maybe two people need to allocate time a little different then split duties among staff members in bigger studios.
Something I figure I would point out since there would be a clear difference between the two type of studio operations.
|
bitman
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4105
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:11:54
- Location: Keystone Colorado
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/05 00:29:17
(permalink)
No.
I don't do it anymore either. :-)
|
stxx
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 406
- Joined: 2010/01/31 17:32:02
- Status: offline
Re: Mixing and Mastering (with, or without artist present)
2018/07/05 19:01:59
(permalink)
I only mix alone but I provide regular updates along the way to make sure i'm going to right direction.
Sonar Platinum, RME UFX, UAD 2, Waves, Soundtoys, Fronteir Alphatrack, X-Touch as Contl Srfc, , Console 1, Sweetwater Creation Station Quad Core Win 8.1, Mackie 824, KRK RP5, AKG 240 MKII, Samson C-Control, Sennheiser, Blue, AKG, RODE, UA, Grace, Focusrite, Audient, Midas, ART Song Portfolio: https://soundcloud.com/allen-lind/sets/oth-short
|