Helpful ReplyReasons for a dead pickup FIXED!

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Kamikaze
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2018/08/21 13:32:17 (permalink)

Reasons for a dead pickup FIXED!

I just bought a pair a GFS P90s, but the neck pick up is dead. GFS have a KwikPlug connection, so I can swap the pick ups easilly a rule out my messy soldering.
 
I ordered these to be delivered to my cousin in California, who was visting my family in the UK the same time as me a month later, and now I have them back in Viet Nam.
 
To get a replacement, I have to wait for an American friend to go back to the US, and have a new one sent to their US address, I don't want to ask as much as having them post the faulty one when they are on holiday stateside. And this could be nearer Christmas. For the cost of a GFS pickup, I'm wndering what could be wrong
 
KwikPlug female needs re-soldering?
Coils wire come loose from the connection wire?
 
Anyone made/fixed pick ups before?
 
(If that wasn't bad enough, I snapped the high e-string with the back and fourth, and I can't get my set in the Vietnam, but I have found a single in a set that is a close match)
 
 
So 
post edited by Kamikaze - 2018/08/22 06:03:26

 
#1
mettelus
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 15:40:09 (permalink)
Since you got a pair of these pickups, I am assuming that you swapped them to verify that it is the pickup and not the guitar wiring.
 
I am not familiar with the "KwikPlug" or if you can slide the case apart easily, but most issues occur at solder joints (highest resistance and point of failure) than in a "wire." The guts of that may be potted, and is essentially a spool of wire on magnets, but the ends (if it can be coil split will have 4, otherwise 2) should be easily accessible with the case opened (many with covers will slide off). Do not dig into the windings in any way, or you could break the wire; and beware of slack concerns (you may not have much) if you try to slide that case apart.
 
It is highly unlikely to be the coil, but more a joint from coil(s) to kwikplug, or the kwikplug to its socket (but on the pickup side if the other pickup works in that socket).
 
When troubleshooting pickups, do not worry to retune strings. The low strings have the most output anyway, and they only need to be tight enough to vibrate to test continuity (even just the A string will work for this, leave the rest slack and pulled behind the neck (I use a piece of string for this behind the heel)).

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tlw
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 15:46:15 (permalink)
A dead pickup means the wrap wire or connection cable is broken.

So could be the plug, could be where the cable joins the wrap wire at the pickup, could be the wrap wire itself is broken inside the pickup.

Fault finding requires a meter that measures resistance. If you have one you could check the cable between the solder points on the pickup and the plug terminals. If either of those connections reads open circuit then the problem’s in the cable. If it doesn’t read open circuit the problems almost certainly a break or short circuit in the wire wrapped round the pickup.

There’s an awful lot of that very thin wire, and as the pickup’s new I’d look to getting it changed under warranty rather than trying to repair it.

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#3
Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:04:45 (permalink)
So it's is basically one of these two issues.
 
KwikPlug female needs re-soldering?
Coils wire come loose from the connection wire?
 
I have swapped the pick ups Mattelus, so it's definitely the pick up. The KwikPlug is a four point mini jack, with the female on the pickup. I've messaged GFS, so I haven't attempted the opening it's case yet.
 
No meters unfortunately TLW, and the small plastic casing means nothing is exposed until I try t remove it. Being in Vietnam, means I'm looking at January before I get a replacement. I can't warrant the cost postage, so may as well right it off and attempt to fix. Worse case scenario I buy a replacement. GFS aren't expensive at $30
 
https://www.guitarfetish....ckel-Case_p_21785.html
 
 
 
 

 
#4
BobF
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:07:53 (permalink)
I can only offer encouragement ...
 
I put a set of GFS Mean 90s (not connectorized) in an LP a few years ago.  Awesome pickups!!
 
 

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#5
Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:14:45 (permalink)
I've had a small play with just the one pickup, and so far I'm happy with the change. So I'll persevere with them.
 
BTW I only went for the Dream over the Mean, because they don't do the Mean in Nickel. I think they used to, be made a batch with the Dream and the previous haven't been re-made

 
#6
Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:34:40 (permalink)
At least I worked out today that the D'addario unwound strings are all the same. Because of the humidity here, these die quickly. My wound stings are chromes and the humidity desn't touch them. I can't get my strings in Viet Nam, as they like super bright and light.
 
I as able to replace my B and E stings with unwound G and B strings. I hadn't thought of that before

 
#7
mettelus
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:35:51 (permalink)
After seeing that picture, I would suspect the kwikplug, which seems to be glued to the back. Taking the lid off may buy you nothing, since it seems they soldered the plug outside the case, then glued it down. Assuming this passed QC, the female pin sockets may be bent or sprung just enough not to make contact.

Sans a meter, if any sockets are obvious but you cannot get to them to straighten, you might be able to bridge the pin gap by wrapping aluminum foil on the male pin(s). One wrap and leave it a smidge too long. This may not be feasible since the connector looks tiny.

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:45:16 (permalink)
Agreed, the connector is too small with too many contacts to try messing with.
 
I found this pic, so the case comes off as I thought.  


 
#9
mettelus
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:52:03 (permalink)
Hmmm, does that cover come off though? It looks like it has screws from the back (which are inaccessible). *If* that snaps off, all of your solders and pins are right there.

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/21 16:55:51 (permalink)
Looks to me like those two metal side clips hold the plastic cover on. They are visible from the outside, so should just press in.
 
EDIT: Curiosity, and impatience for a GFS reply got to me. Popped the cover off. Every looks and fees tidy. May look for a meter tomorrow, but no idea where to start with that. Tracking down flux core solder was bad enough.
 
at least I can bypass the kwikplug now to rule out the coil
post edited by Kamikaze - 2018/08/21 17:22:43

 
#11
Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 04:11:50 (permalink)
OK, so I don't know what I'm doing here. At 16, I received a certificate in Engineering after passing everything except the electrics class. They let me move to the next level, but I had t change to Cnstruction, received a diploma an then a degree. I am still no wiser abut eletrics than my 16 year old self.
 
One thing I am not happy with GFS, is the pickups are not marked. I had to write GPS39 (Neck) and GPS40 (Bridge with a marker as I unbxed to avid cnfusion. They should be 8.4k for the bridge, 8.2K for the neck. Neck pickups are now REVERSE WOUND
 
Setting my cheap Chinese  meter to 20KΩ they read 8.83 and 8.78. So for all I know they are the same pickup. But the GPS 39 is wired White/Black and the GPS40 Back/Red. S the black wire is switched (would tht be reverse winding?).
 
So I am getting a stable resistance reading with both, so I assume the coil is good.
 
But I did notice this! Testing continuity
There are 3 connections. Hot 1 / Ground 3 /Shield(case) 4.
 
KPH 40 (the good one)
1>3 1704
1>4 No response
3>4 No response
 
 
KPH 39 (the bad one)
1>3 1695
1>4 1695
3>4 continuity (the meter beeps at me)
 
 
 

 
#12
Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 05:56:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2018/08/22 16:10:19
Opens the case to check for stray wires or damaged wire jacket. All was tidy.
 
Unsoldered contact 3 and measured. All readings now matched the good PickUp. So the error must be in the KwikPlug. 
 
Re-examined all the solder points and compared with the good PickUp. Then spotted the edge of a solder point making the smallest contact with the female jack
 
SOLVED!



 
#13
mettelus
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 06:20:28 (permalink)
Hehe... for not passing electric class, you done good! I'd wager you know a little something :) Glad to see you got it resolved!

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 06:34:16 (permalink)
Just a little a guess. Luckily I my school decided they didn't want me this week, dues to a Vietnamese event. So I had time to work through this problem in one flow. My Vietnamese prnuciation has imprved too, and took me an hur t track down a suitable multimeter.  With most shops comprehending "Đồng hồ vạn năng"
 
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#15
batsbrew
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 15:17:40 (permalink)
Moral of the story:
Phuck the quick plug!!

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 15:44:17 (permalink)
You want me to do what!?!
 
Actually I dn't mind the system, I just had a dodgy one. At least I was able to quickly switch tem to rule out my soldering. If I wanted t try the bridge in the neck its easy (especily as this is a Epiophone Dot (335 clone) and that harness is a pain to pull out the sound holes each time. IF I wanted to quicky try a humbucker/p90 combinations, its now pretty straight forward. AT GFS prices, if I lived in the US, I'd be really tempted to mess around more.
 
This demo sold me on giving a GFS a try


 
#17
tlw
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 15:54:33 (permalink)
Pulling the electrics out of a semi is the opposite of fun, getting them back in again is even worse.

Having said that, on Gibsons and the small number of Epis I’ve worked on, if they have a centre block there’s a kind of hole in the bridge pickup cavity facing downwards towards the pots and jack socket. That hole is there to provide a way to get the electrics in and out rather than trying to get them through an f hole. Just remember to securely attach long bits of thin string to the switch and pot shafts and jack socket before you remove them and make sure the loose end of the string doesn’t fall into the guitar.

Then you can use the string to pull the parts back into place. Still time consuming, fiddly and annoying to do though.

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/22 16:25:46 (permalink)
No helpful hole in the centre block, just a  small one for both pick up cables to run through.
 
I had all the pots and the selector attach to a pencil with dental floss, with the washer and nut on the floss too, so I could pull the floss and tighten them back on again.
 
The whole job would have been much nicer with an extra inch or half of cable in the harness for each pot. I was glad to get the kwikPlug fixed and not have to drag it all out again to run a new cable bypassing the kwikplug.
 
So glad I got that mutimeter. I doubt I would have progressed otherwise, so cheers
 

 
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mettelus
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/23 00:07:10 (permalink)
I didn't think that far ahead when I put my old PAF PRO in the bridge on my Epi Dot, but found a simple needle and thread worked for reassembly with a magnet. Lesson learned though... string during the disassembly would have been a lot wiser. That guitar indeed has no access other than the f-holes. :(

Guitar looks odd now at a distance because that pickup is black and looks like a hole in the guitar :)

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/23 02:28:38 (permalink)
I'm preferring the look of these P90s over the full metal cased Humbuckers. They are Nickel case with a black bobbin. I removed the black plastic pickguard ages ago in favour of seeing more grain and colour. Now I've added more black in and I'm not quite settled. So these are in the back of my mind for next year when in the UK
 
 
 
For a long time, I wonderd why the chrome reacted to the Vietnamese climate differently than the chrome on my other guitars. Than I found maybe mine was nickle. These new pickups are nickel, but don't quite match. they have a darkness to their colour. Maybe that will in time

 
#21
tlw
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/23 03:45:04 (permalink)
Chrome is shinier than nickel, and looks blue while nickel has a hint of yellow.

Nickel turns yellow as it wears/corrodes/ages, polishing usually gets it back to where it should be. I prefer the look of nickel but understand why manufacturers use chrome - it’s tougher and resists corrosion much more than nickel does.

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/23 04:51:30 (permalink)
These new pickups are nether looking blue or yellow. But I think the yellow will come with the Vietnamese weather. I preferred the nickel when I could get it shinier, but it changes way too quick here. 
 
Silver gets really hammered here, I can't leave my flutes out. I've noticed some jewelers put a grlic in each dispplay case. I can't find anything to verify the validity of this. 
 
My Brand new Guild had been in Vietnam a month and the b and e strings already look old. String corrsion in Vietnam drives my Australian friend mad, with his collection.

 
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mettelus
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/23 05:47:56 (permalink)
If a surface is perfectly polished with no barrier to oxygen/moisture, it will oxidize in short order. A polish that leaves a residue, like Mothers Mag & Aluminum Polish (used on car wheels), would protect better and can you could do a quick buff every now and then. If you have an auto store that carries such, it is worth grabbing some. That stuff is designed to protect from brake dust, which is one of the more corrosive agents there is to metal, especially bare aluminum.

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jimfogle
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/28 19:34:29 (permalink)
Glad you were able to repair the pick up.  Excellent troubleshooting.
 
Pickups modeled to represent vintage pick ups  typically use an iron alloy, alnico (iron, aluminium, nickel and cobalt) for their bar material.  You may this page on pick up repair parts interesting:  https://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Electronics/Pickup_Kits_and_Parts/  Stewart McDonald (StewMac) ships world wide.
 
I ran across these pictures of a Vietnam guitar factory that you may enjoy:  https://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-42/1313036-
 
I found a guitar factory while working in Taiwan in the seventies.  The factory bread and butter item was a Strat inspired electric guitars sold by JC Penny during Christmas season for $99 US.  The owner spent six months out of the year traveling the world selecting and purchasing small lots of wood used to make his self designed acoustic and electric guitars.  He built me an electric bass modeled on a Fender jazz bass, an acoustic 12 string and an acoustic 6 string.  I no longer have the bass and 6 string but still have the 12 string and play it almost every day.
 
I also found an article about a street in Ho Chi Minh City nicknamed "Guitar Street" because more than 15 manufacturers located on that single street.  https://guitarchitecture.org/2010/07/19/guitar-street-in-ho-chi-minh-city-vietnam/  I figured you might like to visit.

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Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/08/30 01:06:05 (permalink)
Cool pics I some interesting twoods in their. I seen one of these in a shop window.

 
A few years back a friend wanted a guitar, when she was traveling through., I was living in HCMC city at the time, so we hunted out guitar street. I was as clued up about gutars as I am now (Not that I know much now, but I knew nothing then)
 
Some friends who are experience players up here, say you can pick up decent guitars here, that are worth picking over the lower end Taylors for the cost.
 
They love acoustics here, and you see guitars bags on peoples backs often as the ride their scooters around town. Acoustic basses still having really taken off, there is this city for sale (Fender T-Bucket) and you can see from the strings it's been their a while. Previously there was a Takemine, with a truss rod so tight you couldn't play it, and they wouldn't let you adjust or be bothered to do it themsleves. Fortunatly the gamble paid off, and it sits in my place with Nylon Tapewounds on it, sounds very nice. 

 
#26
Kamikaze
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Re: Reasons for a dead pickup 2018/09/02 06:02:06 (permalink)
So it seesm there are two types or nickel finish. Normal Nickel and Black Nickel. Black Nickel if a plating treatment that can create varying amounts of black tone to the nickel, and is more corrosion resistant and still conductive.
 
So seems my new nickel pickups will never quite match my nickel hardware

 
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