Panning Dual Guitars: How do I get both wide AND localized guitar sound?

So in rock music when double tracking rhythm guitars I'm seeing they're often panned 80-100% L+R so what you get is this big expanse of guitar sound that seems to be everywhere but not really "localized" to any specific physical position on the stage.

Like in modern rock music, when a band has both a rhythm and a lead guitar player the engineers will often double up the rhythm guitar on L+R throughout the song and will have a "third guitar" - the lead - panned right down the center even with the two L+R rhythms still going. I heard GnR did this, with Slash's rhythm on the left and Izzy's on the right throughout the song, with Slash's "third guitar" lead coming down the center.

But what if I wanted something of a hybrid situation where I have some of that "live band on stage" kinda feel to the mix while ALSO having the big wide rhythm guitar that's on both sides for the most part but still has some sense that he's standing a bit to the right of the singer... How do you achieve the best of both of those?

... Because I kinda like those recordings where they had two guitar players and when one of them went off to do a lead the other guitar player is left holding down the rhythm on his own and doesn't remain "two guitars" while the lead is going..

Thank you

Try putting a tiny little bit of chorus or phaser on 1 guitar to make it stereo and wider, and then put the second guitar right in the middle!
 
R

chuckebaby
I've studied this process quite a bit. Appetite for destruction was a very creative stereo spectrum layout.
Mike Clink was really experimenting at this time more than anything. It just so happened with the sound of the guitars, it works incredibly well. (Izzy on the L / Slash on the R and solos in the C position).
 
 
In your situation you want the guitars to be distinguishable. If not your just making it sound like a wall of mush.
Use different guitars, different /Amps/Amp Sims. Tame the harsh frequency's. Don't be afraid to lay heavy on one side (panned hard Right) you can correct shift in the mix but I've heard great sounds from Heavy guitars on one side in many good songs.
Remember Izzy and Slash both used different guitars and different amps.
 
The key here, is stacking, keeping phase relation and making them sound a little bit different from each other. Using the same guitar/amp on 6 guitar tracks will get you exactly what you ask for...Indistinguishable mush. 
 
 

Thanks man, yeah I'm hip to the using different sounds when layering - but re panning of the layered guitars, what I'm hoping to achieve here is a best of both worlds deal where, after the guitars are all recorded and layered up, the rhythm guitar has that wide stereo spread to a degree but ALSO has some localization, which in this case means the big rhythm guitar is perceived to be predominantly to the right of the singer and the 2nd guitar player (not a layer, but a 2nd guitar/lead player) stands to the left of singer and where this is portrayed in the mix too - so I'm not so much talking about the guitar layering process, but rather the after the fact panning and stereo spread and localization of the guitars as previously described. Does that make sense?

Yeah that boz pan knob I'll maybe get it after all, I almost bought it during bf. I do have waves doubler as well as sound toys' microshift and of course channel tools so thanks for the tips

I'm a big fan of the Waves plugin Reel ADT. I'll typically just take one channel and bus it into it and turn off center...or bring it down. 
 
On other occasions, I'll just double the take and pan them L/R and slightly move one of the tracks left or right...it's a nice effect. 
 
I also like SoundToys, Microshift. You can spread the upper frequencies and apply a low cut if you want the lower guitar frequencies centered. 
 
Matthew Lane's DrMs is pretty cool too.