Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels

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jonel
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2018/12/15 12:08:26 (permalink)

Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels

Hi All,
   I have, what appears to me, a confusing issue with regard to input levels to my audio tracks. When I record direct input from a guitar I have to ensure that input gain is low to provide an input level of about half way on the meter. Even with that level I get a great strong output when the track is played back. Contrast this with the microphone. I have a Shure SM57 feeding into my audio interface but I have to have the input gain fairly high to ensure the input meters are about halfway. When I play back the track I have the audio of good quality but so low that I have to bump up the output gain of the track by a plugin to allow it to compete with the other tracks. I appreciate the different input levels provided be both these devices.
 
What I really need to know is this. Is this the normal characteristic of microphone inputs to Sonar. The fact that I can boost the output gain of the track is just great for me and really makes it a non issue, but I wonder if others see it differently.
 
Jonel
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/15 12:39:22 (permalink)
    It is certainly normal for a low output, dynamic mic like the SM58
     
    I usually have to bump mine up to almost max to het a good signal.
     
    But you should be aware that higher you boost the gain, you are introducing more of the noise floor into your recordings
     
    You need to find a happy balance between a good signal and minimum noise

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    #2
    jonel
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/15 16:01:55 (permalink)
    Thanks, that's a relief. I have invested in several microphones, including condensers with their need for 48V but they all have similar requirements for the input gain. If that's the norm then I'm OK with that. I've been using the Frontier limiter to get good output results from the track and that's good enough for me. It's just that thought it might be my configuration. I've changed everything: cabling, mics, audio interface.
     
    Jonel
    #3
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/15 17:53:00 (permalink)
    You shouldn't need quite as much gain with a condenser but as always, if you've got a good signal then you're golden
     
    Edit: this assumes you're using balanced cables throughout

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    Jesse G
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/15 19:40:18 (permalink)
    Which audio I/O are you using to record your vocals?
     
     

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    JonD
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/15 19:48:12 (permalink)
    For low output dynamic mics, get a Fethead or Cloudlifter and your problems will be over.
     
    https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead.html
     
    https://www.cloudmicrophones.com/cloudlifter-cl-1
     

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    #6
    jonel
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/15 22:54:03 (permalink)
    I was initially using a Novation NIO 2|4 but the changed this to Roland Tri-Capture and then an M-Audio Interface. All with balanced I/O. In fact the only thing that I realised was not changed WAS the balanced cable input but this was finally changed and the result was still the same.
    So, as long as I can amplify the output then I am happy. I would be more concerned if this amplification of the output was unnecessary - its just that I have not come across anyone mentioning the need.
     
    Jonel
     
     
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    Kev999
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/16 03:57:20 (permalink)
    jonel
    ...I have a Shure SM57 feeding into my audio interface but I have to have the input gain fairly high to ensure the input meters are about halfway. When I play back the track I have the audio of good quality but so low that I have to bump up the output gain of the track by a plugin to allow it to compete with the other tracks...

     
    It probably seems a bit surprising to a lot of people that the world's most popular mics (i.e. the SM57 & SM58) have such a low output. A Cloudlifter certainly helps, although the difference it makes is subtle and not dramatic.

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    bitflipper
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/16 15:27:15 (permalink)
    The output from a guitar pickup will be higher - it can be many, many times higher - than a microphone's. In the extreme, say comparing a passive ribbon to a high-output humbucker, the difference might be 60-80 dB (guessing those numbers off the top o' my head). An SM58 has a much hotter signal than a ribbon, but it's still a tenth of a typical guitar pickup's output.
     
    As proposed above, one solution is to add an inexpensive microphone preamp to your setup. This can have added benefits, as some preamps also offer EQ and compression, making the process easier when you are both vocalist and engineer.


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    Jesse G
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/16 19:15:39 (permalink)
    bitflipper
     
    As proposed above, one solution is to add an inexpensive microphone preamp to your setup. This can have added benefits, as some preamps also offer EQ and compression, making the process easier when you are both vocalist and engineer.


    +1
     
    There are a few good ones for less than $300

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    #10
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/16 22:05:30 (permalink)
    Being the proud owner of over a dozen SM 57, SM 58 and Beta 58's and numerous audio interfaces and mixers I will say this.
    They all seem to like the gain control at around 1'o clock on all of my mixers and most interfaces. The Beta 58 is a little hotter. I also have a lot of different mikes including condensers. I don't really find them needing more or less than the dynamics. Each is a little different but not by much. 
    If I hook up a 57 or 58 to any system and find myself going past that 1'o clock mark I always check the Pad switch is off or if the cable has gone south. It's either that or the pre amp is not made for a dynamic mike. 
     
    You don't need a cloud lifter what you really need is a proper pre amp.  
    I used to own an M audio Fast track pro and that was the worst set up I ever owned. 
     
    At the 1'o clock setting I'm just tickling the orange on the meter in any audio app including screen capture software.  

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    #11
    jonel
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    Re: Question Regarding Microphone Audio Input Levels 2018/12/18 10:40:47 (permalink)
    Thanks to all of you for the really good informative responses. 
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