Intel 915 Board! Is it the cause of my problems?

Hey guys thanks for all the help so far but as I stated before I just built up a new pc for Sonar 4 and everytime I record enable any tracks from my MOTU Traveler I can see digital pops and clicks all over the place in console view in Sonar. And when I try to play back anything I get constant stuttering. After reading about all possible causes and verifying it wasn't a clock issue I have found numerous articles about the Intel 915 boards with PCI-e causing nothing but problems with Sonar. Is this true?

I have an Intel 865GLC ready to swap out but I don't want to go through with it if there is a fix for this machine with the 915. ANy help would be great. Thanks.

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57659

http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/nforce4_tests.htm

OK so I did some checking and found that the on-board firewire was the cause of my problem. I put a seperate firewire card in the pc and that seemed to fix everything. Last night I was recording 14 tracks via the Traveler but I did crash after about 6 minutes of recording. Should I be able to get more? The proc was only reading 1% while recording and there was only a spike or two of the disk to a whomping 2%

I am running the 915 PBL with a 3.4 GB proc and 2GB of mem with 3 SATA drives (80 GB OS and 2 300 GB Storage drives) I'm running a Radeon PCI-e video card (not sure what model)

I am concerned though as last night I just had a Reason track enabled, no audio playback or recording, and was just trying to mess around with Reason to come up with some ideas and after about 5 minutes Sonar locked up and I had to reboot. The audio engine has froze a few time but is that what I should expect? Thanks for the help you guys have been.

need to know what video card you have exactly.
anything more than an ATI X300 will give you major issues

Scott
ADK

usnbrendon,

Thanks for putting my mind to rest a bit. I have a few questions. I had not installed the Chipset software utility nor did I load the Matrix Storage Utility.

1) Is it bad to install the chipset software this late in my setup process?

2) The Matrix Storage Utility and the Application Accelerator are available on Intel's site. Which one should I go with? If any? FYI - I'm not running RAID.

3) I haven't installed the latest BIOS update. At what point should I do this?

So here's my situation now:

PC up and running with Sonar and Reason installed talking nicely to my MOTU but have had a few weird crashes for no reason and would like to get this in a good state. Can you give me the blow by blow as to where I should go from here. Like I said in my earlier post after putting a seperate firewire card in my pc it resolved the original issue but the reason that issue was compounded was due to the internal sound card on the mobo being screwed up. Should that work in Sonar? I disabled it in Device Manager and that solved some issues but it would be nice to have that as another send. Also I couldn't find any documentation as to what slot shares with another anywhere. Just to let you know so you can have all of the info, My GPU is in the 16x slot and firewire card is in the bottom pci.

Hey Man thanks for all the knowledge and help. Hope you're having fun with 64bit system.

Okay Bungee,

(First, allow me to apologize, I intended to respond a bit sooner, but had a family gig to tend to....you know how that stuff goes though.)

So....you have some good questions....Let's dig in here.. FIRST AND FOREMOST, that board supports EITHER a Pentium 4 (775LPGA) or Celeron D (775LPGA) processor.....all of this is pointless if you have a Celeron D! The processor simply CANNOT hold a candle to the 5xx or 6xx series Prescott core P4s. There is no comparison when it comes to processor intensive apps. Period. In fact, I believe Cakewalk has documentation stating it does not guarantee SONAR will run reliably on anything other than a genuine Pentium processor. Don't shoot me if I am mistake about that....but trust, it won't fly with the Celeron.....don't waste your time. It would be advisable to upgrade the Processor to a 640 or 650 EM64T P4 from ZipZoonFly.com, or other place for <$250. (I ordered mine from there, and shipping was free....and my processor was shipped Fedex 2nd day Air, and got a heck of a price for the 660.) [[ Sidenote: Do NOT bother with the P4 Extreme...it is a waste of about $1,000 and my system benchmarks blow it away, besides the real advantage would only be that it can handle a system bus of 1,066 MHZ....your board doesn't even support that. ]]

read on...I broke it up into a couple of posts....there was so much info, and someone may need to reference only one portion of this information to help another user in the future. (Trying to be a bit user-friendly and conscientious....sorry if it seems too choppy).

buddy I do not participate in this thread but I must express my gratitude to you on behalf of everyone if I may for taking the time to help our fellow Sonar user
this forum is the only place I have seen where people really want to help and give their best...I mean you are great!
cheers!

ORIGINAL: usnbrendon

usnbrendon,

Thanks for putting my mind to rest a bit. I have a few questions. I had not installed the Chipset software utility nor did I load the Matrix Storage Utility.

1) Is it bad to install the chipset software this late in my setup process?

2) The Matrix Storage Utility and the Application Accelerator are available on Intel's site. Which one should I go with? If any? FYI - I'm not running RAID.

3) I haven't installed the latest BIOS update. At what point should I do this?

So here's my situation now:

PC up and running with Sonar and Reason installed talking nicely to my MOTU but have had a few weird crashes for no reason and would like to get this in a good state. Can you give me the blow by blow as to where I should go from here. Like I said in my earlier post after putting a seperate firewire card in my pc it resolved the original issue but the reason that issue was compounded was due to the internal sound card on the mobo being screwed up. Should that work in Sonar? I disabled it in Device Manager and that solved some issues but it would be nice to have that as another send. Also I couldn't find any documentation as to what slot shares with another anywhere. Just to let you know so you can have all of the info, My GPU is in the 16x slot and firewire card is in the bottom pci.

Hey Man thanks for all the knowledge and help. Hope you're having fun with 64bit system.

Okay Bungee,

(First, allow me to apologize, I intended to respond a bit sooner, but had a family gig to tend to....you know how that stuff goes though.)

So....you have some good questions....Let's dig in here.. FIRST AND FOREMOST, that board supports EITHER a Pentium 4 (775LPGA) or Celeron D (775LPGA) processor.....all of this is pointless if you have a Celeron D! The processor simply CANNOT hold a candle to the 5xx or 6xx series Prescott core P4s. There is no comparison when it comes to processor intensive apps. Period. In fact, I believe Cakewalk has documentation stating it does not guarantee SONAR will run reliably on anything other than a genuine Pentium processor. Don't shoot me if I am mistake about that....but trust, it won't fly with the Celeron.....don't waste your time. It would be advisable to upgrade the Processor to a 640 or 650 EM64T P4 from ZipZoonFly.com, or other place for <$250. (I ordered mine from there, and shipping was free....and my processor was shipped Fedex 2nd day Air, and got a heck of a price for the 660.) [[ Sidenote: Do NOT bother with the P4 Extreme...it is a waste of about $1,000 and my system benchmarks blow it away, besides the real advantage would only be that it can handle a system bus of 1,066 MHZ....your board doesn't even support that. ]]

read on...I broke it up into a couple of posts....there was so much info, and someone may need to reference only one portion of this information to help another user in the future. (Trying to be a bit user-friendly and conscientious....sorry if it seems too choppy).

buddy I do not participate in this thread but I must express my gratitude to you on behalf of everyone if I may for taking the time to help our fellow Sonar user
this forum is the only place I have seen where people really want to help and give their best...I mean you are great!
cheers!

Thanks neonknight....I have been fortunate enough to have 10's of thousands of dollars spent on my training over the years, courtesy of the US Navy, and American taxpayers....I kinda consider it a civic duty I suppose. Besides, I love music...just like the rest of you...and it really sucks to have a technical snaffu keep one from doing what they love to do most in life! It is my humble and sincere pleasure to assist anyone in this forum anyway I can.

P.S. It is nice to hear that all my time and effort is appreciated though, and for that...I thank you!

Now I've had it!! All I was trying to do was pass the time and setup my 01V template and save it to my network drive so I can use it after I re-install everything and while I start to type the name of the template in Sonar freezes and I have to reboot again. And for some reason every once in a while when I open Sonar it sees my MOTU Traveler as a 7in 7out card only and it just ignores the ADAT ins and outs. I don't think I've ever experienced such wacky ass issues.


Upon further investigation each time Sonar is locking up it locks the adat out port busy on my MOTU. Is this all being caused by mobo issues or do I have my firewire card in the wrong slot?

USNBRENDON HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Let's assume that I don't mind starting fresh. Could you layout an install guide from scratch that will get me the cleanest install possible? All the way down to installing Sonar.
Not sure if you have the time to help but "Luke you are my only hope".

First, I feel your frustration! Honest....it sucks to have these types of things keeping us from just F@(king making music!

This link takes you to the 'home base' for your Intel 915PBL. http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/bl_drive.htm

These links are specific to your motherboard........and I highly recommend NOT using the desktop board download link, which allows you to use the java drop-downs to select board, OS, etc. That can, and often does contain incorrect links, or provides a confusing and WHOPPING selection of drivers and utilities, not all of which are even compatible with the 915PBL. Use that link above to get to the latest things for YOUR board.

Next, this link provides you with the details on building your system....which means it will give you motherboard specific practical advice, including which PCI slots share IRQS and what numbers they are, etc, along with everything from power supply and cooling requirements to Windows XP specific installation advice:

http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-012554.htm

Next the Chipset Software and Utilities Installation Sequence:

http://support.intel.com/support/chipsets/inf/sb/CS-009271.htm

Now, for the Matrix Storage Technology, the 915PBL IS FULLY COMPATIBLE....see the matrix here:
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/bl_available.htm

The d/l you want for chipset and matrix are here: (remember, I said that application accelerator and Matrix storage are being used interchangably right now while Intel phases out the older AA nomenclature.)

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/bl_drive.htm

BIOS update here: http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/bl_bios.htm Use express bios, it is easier, but if you have a floppy, the Iflash will work also.

Okay, now, about doing a fresh install....give me the details on your memory so I can check OPTIMAL and aggressive timings for them, and that we can plug into BIOS to make sure that isn't an issue. Also, what kind of hard drives are you using, and in what configuration.

Be prepared, the way to troubleshoot this is to start with a stripped down system and slowly add in non-essential cards/periphs until such time as you can recreate the problem again.....thus you identified the weak link......or if you are lucky and put it all together correctly and in order, then you are problem-free. It isn't for that faint of heart, but can be done in one evening after work, or on a relaxed Sunday afternoon, etc. But, if you are serious about optimizing the system, it will require a little more than a couple quick downloads and a reboot.

<<shrugs....think how I feel doing this for a living!>>

Usually, it turns out to be something very simple....so then you get your "DOH!" moment....but are much wiser and get to have fun making music! So hang in there.

you can email direct if need be with the specs on your system....be as thorough as you can so that I don't have to ask too many technical questions. I think by Memorial Day you'll be running smooth as silk.


EDITED: ***my email is my username.....USNBRENDON, and you can send it via hotmail.

Also, I have the latest Intel utilities all burned to DVD, so if you are confused about links etc., let me know, I'll send them to you via a .RAR or .ZIP file, whichever you prefer.

USNBRENDON....It is so heartening to see someone prepared to go to the lengths you have to help another Sonar user. You should be knighted. Well done and I just hope the rest of us can help you if you ever have difficulties of your own. I for one will be on the alert for your name in the future.

ORIGINAL: Lona69

USNBRENDON....It is so heartening to see someone prepared to go to the lengths you have to help another Sonar user. You should be knighted. Well done and I just hope the rest of us can help you if you ever have difficulties of your own. I for one will be on the alert for your name in the future.

Hey there Lona69, welcome to the forum, and trust, I'll be watching out for you too! Thanks for taking time to say hi, and I hope the Gold Coast is nice this time of year....Australia is one of the places I always wanted to see, but alas, the Navy never took me that far south! Take care, and just give a shout out if there is anything we can do for you....there are lots of helpful folks here.....don't let the sarcasm and inside jokes throw ya.......it is all in fun, and very few people here take themselves too seriously. Have fun.....see ya 'round the forum!

Brendon,
I'm running Kingston memory. I ran the Intel Desktop utilities last night and all tests passed with flying colors. In doing some more research I found out that MOTU only recommends running their Traveler on Texas Instruments FW chipset based controllers. My iogear usb2.0/FW card definitely does not have this. I cannot find anywhere a whitepaper on the mobo that gives me the irq sharing info you are speaking of. I cannot even mess around with the Roland TTS-1 for 3 minutes without Sonar locking up on me. I am going to try to find a place today that has the Firewire card MOTU recommends but I'm not sure if that is just them covering their asses because that was the card they used during testing or if it is that crucial. I find it hard to believe that every user who bought this MOTU piece is running it on those specific controller sets.


Again man thanks for all the help in this. I will say I kept checking the boards last night praying for a response from you.

On a side note just to let you know when it rains it pours I finally picked up my Mackie Control Universal last night I get it home and turn it on not connected to the pc yet and of course, my luck. The Master Fader is busted and will not calibrate and is is sticky feeling. Now i have to drive an hour back to the place to return it. It just keeps getting better.

Whoa....that bites!
Well, not that you can always do so, but anytime you buy new gear, try to open it up and check it out on the spot. Most high-end audio shops will understand, and will accomodate....and if they don't .....find a new place to buy your gear! Plus, if your dealer has any kind of in-house technicians/warranty service on-site, then they should be GLAD to plug that puppy in and check it out on their bench, just to SHOW YOU it works. Of course, something like a console, i check every fader and knob to check for binding, I want to see it plugged in so that I am sure it isn't DOA, and that all LED's work, etc.....trust, I have put my pro audio shops to work from Virginia Beach to Dallas, and they have earned their pay........and I have paid for their salaries quite dearly, so I figure it is only FAIR!

oh, and the firewire on the 915 is by agere, but I do not see why it won't work with the MOTU, unless they damn thing really is THAT finicky....in which case....I am glad to know, I've been saving up for a couple of MOTU pieces....not the Traveler, but STILL!!!!


I know this is a lot of info, but here is one more nugget, it is an errata that I remember seeing on the 915, and there is no workaround, althoguh it affects FEW machines, but I suspect it was the other poster's REAL reason for having to purchase a FIREWIRE add-in card, instead of using the onboard controller.

FROM INTEL OFFICIAL ERRATA on the 915:
2. The IEEE-1394a Interface May Lose Link Connection When
Transferring Files From Some IEEE-1394a DVD/CD-ROM Devices
PROBLEM: PCI frequency noise between GND and the IEEE-1394a analog ground (AGND), in excess of 1V peak to peak, has been measured when transferring files from an IEEE-1394a DVD/CD-ROM device and an IDE Hard Disk Drive. The presence of this noise causes an IEEE-1394a link drop off with certain IEEE-1394a DVD/CD-ROM devices.
IMPLICATION: Users may experience the IEEE-1394a link drop when transferring files from some IEEE-1394a DVD/CD-ROM devices. This failure has been observed with a very limited number of IEEE-1394a DVD/CD-ROM devices. The failure is masked when the system is configured with a minimum of two PCI cards. This failure is considered a low risk.
WORKAROUND: None.
STATUS: This erratum may be fixed in a future hardware revision.

The problem may have absolutely no bearing on your system, but I posted for others who might be having similar issues with onboard firewire. Doesn't seem to affect the SATA devices, mostly because the PIRQs are never shared on those devices, but it is interesting to note that such a small voltage (noise) being shunt to ground would cause the IEEE controller to just drop offline!

So I checked this ftp://download.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/C6859901.pdf and could not for the life of me find anywhere where it will tell me what pci slot to put the firewire card in to prevent conflicts.

Was your system pre-configured, or did you build it? The Intel boxed mobo shipped with it....just FYI.

You shoulda mentioned you are IT....hah hah......woulda saved me a little time, but hey, its all good!

Also, I did a little of your homework for you....didn't want you scorching a few million brain cells or getting a migraine! Anyhow....here is the IRQ stuff....direct from Intel.

2.7 PCI Conventional Interrupt Routing Map
This section describes interrupt sharing and how the interrupt signals are connected between the PCI Conventional bus connectors and onboard PCI Conventional devices. The PCI Conventional specification describes how interrupts can be shared between devices attached to the PCI Conventional bus. In most cases, the small amount of latency added by interrupt sharing does not affect the operation or throughput of the devices. In some special cases where maximum performance is needed from a device, a PCI Conventional device should not share an interrupt with other PCI Conventional devices. Use the following information to avoid sharing an interrupt with a PCI Conventional add-in card.

PCI Conventional devices are categorized as follows to specify their interrupt grouping:
•INTA: By default, all add-in cards that require only one interrupt are in this category. For almost all cards that require more than one interrupt, the first interrupt on the card is also classified as INTA.
• INTB: Generally, the second interrupt on add-in cards that require two or more interrupts is classified as INTB. (This is not an absolute requirement.)
• INTC and INTD: Generally, a third interrupt on add-in cards is classified as INTC and a fourth interrupt is classified as INTD.

The ICH6-R, such as on the 915PBL, has eight Programmable Interrupt Request (PIRQ) input signals. All PCI Conventional interrupt sources either onboard or from a PCI Conventional add-in card connect to one of these PIRQ signals. Some PCI Conventional interrupt sources are electrically tied together on the board and therefore share the same interrupt. Table 14 shows an example of how the PIRQ signals are routed.

***For example, go to Intel here: ftp://download.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/C6859901.pdf (Go to page 55 & 56. Obviously you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader installed.) Using Table 14 as a reference, assume an add-in card using INTA is plugged into PCI Conventional bus connector 3. In PCI bus connector 3, INTA is connected to PIRQB, which is already connected to the ICH6-R audio controller. The add-in card in PCI Conventional bus connector 3 now shares an interrupt with the onboard interrupt source.

NOTE: In PIC mode, the ICH6-R can connect each PIRQ line internally to one of the IRQ signals (3, 4, 5,6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, and 15). Typically, a device that does not share a PIRQ line will have a unique interrupt. However, in certain interrupt-constrained situations, it is possible for two or more of the PIRQ lines to be connected to the same IRQ signal. Refer to Table 13 for the allocation of PIRQ lines to IRQ signals in APIC mode.

----------------------------------------------------

Page 53 & 54 will show EXACT tables of the Interrupts (IRQs) and their PCI assignments:

For you.....the important thing is that you are using Windows XP, thus your board will NOT be operating in PIC mode. Your chipset can take advantage of the larger 24 IRQ set that is associated with APIC mode.

********For anyone else reading this who might be using an older legacy OS like Windows 98SE or ME, this is why it is so important to use the newer OSs like Win2000 and XP, as anything older FORCES and LIMITS you to 16 IRQs. That means sharing is not only probable, but in our types of systems, we place heavy demands on the chipsets and processors, and there need to be MORE, not FEWER IRQs for the OS to choose from......remember, this is a plug-and-play thing, and there is no avoiding it. The OS gets to make certain decisions for us.....I'd rather not go into things with one hand tied behind my back AND blindfolded. Using XP allows newer chipsets and processors to do what they are designed to do......and that is work efficiently and FAST. *********

Bungee, your interrupts table looks like this:

Table 13. Interrupts
IRQ System Resource

NMI I/O channel check
0 =Reserved, interval timer
1 =Reserved, keyboard buffer full
2 =Reserved, cascade interrupt from slave PIC
3 =COM2 (Note 1)
4 =COM1 (Note 1)
5 =LPT2 (Plug and Play option)/User available
6 =Diskette drive
7 =LPT1 (Note 1)
8 =Real-time clock
9 =User available
10 =User available
11 =User available
12 =Onboard mouse port (if present, else user available)
13 =Reserved, math coprocessor
14 =Primary IDE/Serial ATA (if present, else user available)
15 Secondary IDE/Serial ATA (if present, else user available)
16 =PIRQA
17 =PIRQB
18 =PIRQC
19 =PIRQD
20 =PIRQE
21 =PIRQF
22 =PIRQG
23 =PIRQH

Remember, IRQ 0 counts as 1, which is why 0-23 = 24 IRQs. The ones you will be concerned with are 16->23 as these are the ones that are associated with all the PCI &/or PCIE slots on your motherboard. Use this information to cross-reference the chart.....
***********EXAMPLES************

Notice that the matrix (table) shows that the IEEE-1394a controller (ONBOARD FIREWIRE HUB) utilizes IRQ 17, 18, 19, or 20, (although in my experience it is usually steered to 17 or 19 by the Windows XP). So if you wanted your add-in card to AVOID sharing an IRQ with your onboard firewire hub, then you'd want a PCI slot that utilized any number other than 17, 18, 19, or 20. On this motherboard, you don't get to decide this....it is hit or miss, because it comes down to what you have installed, and HOW XP ASSIGNS the IRQs at boot-up. Which is why it is SOOOOoooo important to have all unused resources DISABLED IN THE BIOS....that way XP never even sees them.....that hardware is there, but not powered, thus XP ignores it, and doesn't have to worry about whether or not the hardware receives its own IRQ.

INTB = Intel High Definition Audio Controller (you'll find this in Table 13.), so look at the matrix and notice that any place INTB shows up, this could potentially be assigned the associated IRQ......REMEMBER, PIRQA = IRQ 16, PIRQB = IRQ 17, and up it goes to IRQ 23, which would be PIRQH. So that onboard audio could be assigned IRQ# 18, 19, 21 or 22 but NEVER 16, 17, 20, or 23.....so if you were avoiding sharing this device you'd choose a slot that did NOT correspond the same IRQs........and a safe slot would be one that had 16, 17, 20 or 23.....which ARE.....TADA: NONE. That stinking onboard audio potentionally shares an IRQ with each PCI slot. NOW do you understand why I said...........DISABLE THAT THING IN THE BIOS AND UNINSTALL ANY AND ALL REALTEK DRIVERS ASSOCIATED WITH IT??? This thing is hard-wired into everything on that motherboard!

Last, this one is easy. Again, as I recalled, this motherboard handles everything dynamically, so there does not appear to be any steadfast rules......go into your Decvice Manager>Hardware and view devices by RESOURCE...then expand the IRQs. Either print a copy of your screen using a utility like SnagIt, or copy this list down. It will show you what IRQs Windows XP is typically assigning to each device and card in YOUR system. This is very valuable info, because you'll use it to troubleshoot and to possibly swap PCI slots for your firewire card to avoid IRQ conflicts.

I am trying to locate the installation guide that ships with the boxed versions....I may have to go hunt a printed copy down today.....but I know there is a simple guideline that provides some basis for avoiding conflicts....it may even be the same as mine....Ill shoot you another post in a sec with my 925's conflict chart......the 915PBL is essentially the same configuration.....1)16x PCIE, 2) 1x PCI. and 4) PCI Conventional slots.....so I imagine the ICH6R will see them the same or very similarly as on the 925X. bear with me on this one.

I put it together myself. I'm off on a hunt for a MOTU acceptable FW card. Wish me luck.