Guitar to MIDI to DXi?

I have no experience to MIDI guitars, but there's a cheap alternative that you may want to check out before spending the cash. Check out the thread here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41787&highlight=

MIDI guitar technology is pretty well-developed these days.

I use a Roland GK-2a pickup (I move it between a strat-type guitar and a LP Jr.-type guitar) through an old GR-09 and a new GI-20. The GR-09 internal sounds are somewhat useable and its MIDI output is somewhat useable; the GI-20 does not have internal sounds, but its MIDI out, to go to the computer either via USB or your soundcard's MIDI interface (or to an external synthesizer or module and then to the computer as audio), is very useable. I am about to finish an electric guitar with a Graphtech Ghost system, which should work better than the Roland by all reports (Graphtech, as with the RMC system that Brian Moore Guitars uses, is a piezo pickup, and Roland uses a magnetic pickup which is...pickier).

I am much better on guitar than on keys for fast melodic or lead lines, so this is primarily what I use the MIDI guitar for. I can do pads OK on keys, but my voicings are usually different on guitar (it might just be me, but orchestral string parts on keys seem to be more normal than my orchestral string parts on guitar).

I sometimes record the MIDI data, but don't have it drive anything, while recording a guitar part. This has proved very useful when doubling a guitar part, either rhythm or lead, with odd keyboard or sampled sounds. You can also record the piezo pickup sound, which can be used for doubling purposes later on, too.

Make sure you tune your recording system for low-latency, since you will need all the help you can get while tracking MIDI guitar. Some players moan and complain about how they have to change their playing style with MIDI guitar, but for me it is not much different than the switch from acoustic to electric, or from a Strat to a Les Paul - not worse, just different.

(1) does the guitar-to-MIDI-to (say) a DXi synth work well? and (2) what are some major things to be thinking about if I'm going this route?

metaprog,

I've recently added a GR-33 and Godin xtSA guitar to my collection of toys. I've been quite happy with the tracking capability of the Godin with the Roland. Also the electric pickups are also quite nice. I like it better than my PRS.

Anyway, I connect the GR-33 to Sonar via an Edirol FA-101 audio/midi interface. It works well with playing DXi/VSTi pluggins. To play in realtime I use ASIO drivers to get low latencies between my interface and Sonar (~9mSec).

The only problems that I have experienced when using the GR-33 with the plugins are how the expression pedals effect the plug in. On occation, I've noticed that the slide pedal has caused major failure of the plugin.

Good Luck,
Ron

I sometimes record the MIDI data, but don't have it drive anything, while recording a guitar part.

So if I'm understanding this correctly I could get a Roland GK-2a pickup and connect it to my soundcard's midi port and record.

seriousfun, please confirm this.

ORIGINAL: seriousfun

MIDI guitar technology is pretty well-developed these days.

I use a Roland GK-2a pickup (I move it between a strat-type guitar and a LP Jr.-type guitar) through an old GR-09 and a new GI-20. The GR-09 internal sounds are somewhat useable and its MIDI output is somewhat useable; the GI-20 does not have internal sounds, but its MIDI out, to go to the computer either via USB or your soundcard's MIDI interface (or to an external synthesizer or module and then to the computer as audio), is very useable.

How do you like the GI20? I've thought of getting that unit. Tried one at a friends house, but I thought the latency was a bit much although it could've been his setup.

Personally I have a GR33 and VG8ex. I've done a lot of recording with the GR33 but only "live" not midi or triggering vsynths. I use the RMC system installed on a Parker Fly Classic..triggers like a dream, even sweeps.

Have to agree here - the RMC route is definitley the way to go in terms of MIDI capable pickups. Here's my story on how I came to this conclusion - long winded but hopefully useful !

I tried various software solutions without a MIDI enabled guitar and they were all pretty useless. I have some keyboards but I am no master at keyboards so I thought the hell with it and bought a Roland GR-20 (349 Pounds Sterling), which comes with the new GK3 pickup. This was actually pretty good. It was easy enough to fit the GK3 to one of my Strats (definitley have to screw it on though - the sticky tape option is to fragile) and it tracked pretty well, meaning that it triggered the sounds on the GR-20 quite accuratley and could trigger Soft Synths through the GR-20 . The sounds on the GR-20 are OK but not very tweakable. The only thing that I found problematic was that the tracking was just not accurate and reliable enough - you really have to be careful how you play and adapt your style somewhat.

So ... a mate of mine introduced me to a mate of his who used a Godin LGXT guitar, which has the RMC transducers built into the bridge, with the Roland GR-33 . This guy plays live with this set up - just him a couple of Roland Loopstations, the Godin and the Gr-33. The sounds he gets out of this are awesome and he plays some pretty complicated arrangements. I tried the guitar and the tracking is absolutely spot on , far superior to the GK3. The additional benefit of the RMC system is that you also get an acoustic sound for your electric guitar - so you have three sound sources : Magnetic pickups for the electric, RMC for the acoustic and synth, each with its own seperate output or mixed via the 13 pin synth output.

So I bought a Godin LGXT and it really is a fantastic instrument. Tracks fine and allows me to trigger Soft synths just fine - you can even have different patchs / synths triggered by different strings. It all works fine in Sonar and I am now able to use the guitar as my main composition instrument which just makes things a whole lot easier for me.

I have since bought a second hand GR-33 (199 Pounds Sterling) as this box is a lot more tweakable than the GR-20 and better for live work.

If you are serious about doing MIDI with Guitar then I think the RMC solution is the best way to go. There are a number of diiferent guitars that you can buy with this setup most notably Godin and Brian Moore Guitars. The prices range from around 300 pounds sterling to 1600 pounds sterling . The RMC techology is the same, but the prices reflect the overall quality of the instrument and the woods and magnetic pickups used. I went for the LGXT because its also a very nice and playable guitar.

Having got the guitar you then need to get a GR-20, GR-33, GI-20 or some other 13 pin MIDI box (Axon and Yamaha make them I believe). The GI-20 is a pretty much a straight midi Converter, with a few frills, allegedly the most accurate for tracking, but costs 399 pound sterling ! - The GR-20 is good for starting out with and possibly cheapest option if you mainly want to do trigger soft synths. The GR-33 is probably the best all round , but is the most expensive (430 pounds sterling new) .

Anyway I hope this helps

Cheers - Chris

Hey metaprog,
I have a Brian Moore 13 pin guitar and a GI-20.My story is similiar in that I can't play keys well enough to do anything productive,so midi guitar was my solution.They both work pretty well for tracking synths,strings,etc.When I record midi tracks I edit all the notes below a certain velocity in the piano roll view.My technique is reasonably clean,but there always seems to be "glitch "notes recorded also.As long as you realise that it's not a perfect thing,and your technique may have to adapt a little,I think you'd be happy with using a midi guitar system.I use soft synths only (Reason).I don't play shows or anything with it,so I have no hardware synths.

One thing though if you go the software synth route,you have to have a pretty fast PC in order to negate the latency thing.That will ruin the whole experience for you.I have been able to track at 2.9 msec,and it feels OK.

Good luck with your decision.If you have any specific questions about my set up,I'd be happy to help if I can.

Frank

Chris: Thanks again. At this point, I don't expect to do a whole lot of stuff live, although the option is nice.

8ftsq: Not too worried about my computer. I'm running 3Ghz/1 GB RAM. The only thing is that I don't have an external drive, which I know a lot of people recommend for audio. My interface is pretty cheap - just a US-122, but for my level of musicianship, it's probably enough! (Tho I must say - once I saw the BOSS GS-10, I was almost kicking myself. That thing does everything, and I could certainly use the guitar effects.)

The web page I went to said the shadow is no longer being made. Get the Roland GR-33 or GR-20. That's the standard and will be around for a long time.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/6242/shadow/shadow.html

Thanks for the info & link Dave. I've been digging around the net a bit and found the GVOX Guitar. It looks cheap, but since the price is dirt cheap I'm gonna try it. Anyone try it or hear of it?