P5 and Sonar problems with NI

Well, I was going to mention the usual but you pretty much seem to have covered it. I've not tried any NI instruments in the new version of P5 at all and I am not inclined to purchase any at this point.

Typical things to try are ASIO vs WDM (which you said you did) as well as messing with all the various audio driver parameters. I might also suggest trying a different soundcard from a different vendor if you possibly have access to one.

Calling Cakewalk is probably the right thing to do. They did publish in the following softsynth incompatibilities with Project5 V2.0 in the readme.rtf file that comes with the product and these issues are being resolved with the respective vendors:

Software synthesizer issues

FruityLoops 5 DXi can cause crash when patching in multiple instances
If you encounter instability using the DXi or VSTi versions of the FruityLoops 5, try using the application as a ReWire client instead. Check www.fruityloops.com for the latest updates.

Cyclone DXi and some 3rd party instruments can play at the wrong pitch if the sample rate changed
If you change the sample rate in a project using Cyclone DXi, Battery DXi, or possibly other sample playback synths, the output pitch may change in proportion to the changed sample rate.

Tassman DXi will not patch
If you select Tassman DXi from the Insert Instrument menu and it does not patch, you must update to the latest version. Tassman 3.0 DXi is a free upgrade for registered Tassman owners or registered SONAR 1 XL customers. Visit www.applied-acoustics.com for details.

Loading empty .AKP and .KRZ files can cause data loss in the DS864 DXi
Some AKAI S5000/6000 and K2000 files do not contain any actual sample data, but are traditionally used to convey file descriptions or copyright information. However, because they contain legitimate file header information, the DS864 will attempt to open these files normally.

If you open such a file over an existing part, the part will be replaced with an empty part. Before opening any sample file, be sure that you intend to replace the existing part with the new one, or switch to an empty part that doesn’t already contain sample data.

Project5’s application window is resized when used with the Arturia Moog Modular V DXi
When the Arturia Moog DXi is floating in Project5 and its view is set to the “Keyboard” view, Project5’s main app window will be inadvertently resized. You can restore Project5’s window size using the window’s Maximize control. Please visit the manufacturer’s website for an update that may address this issue: www.arturia.com

Opening a project with the DR008 DXi may cause a crash
It is possible that using the original DR008 (version 1.00) that shipped with SONAR 2 XL will cause a crash when reopening the project. You must update to the latest version of the DR008 to have files load without crashing. Please see the vendor’s website for information on updates: www.fxpansion.com

Previewing Stylus RMX inside Project5 with high latency may cause a crash or clicks and pops in audio
When previewing Stylus RMX (version 1.1 or earlier) in Project5, a crash may occur under the following conditions:
a) Audio hardware latency exceeds 50 ms
b) Stylus RMX is wrapped using Project5’s included VST Adapter

When previewing or playing Stylus RMX version 1.2, audio artifacts such as clicks and pops may be heard at latencies exceeding 100 ms.

Project5's window size may change when adjusting window size in Reaktor 4 VSTi
Changing the window size in Reaktor VSTi via one of the buttons in the upper right corner, or by toggling the show/hide state of the file browser, may resize the Project5 application window.

Can't really offer any suggestions as to the possible solution but I just thought I would say that I am using GPO (powered by Kontakt Player) in P5v2 without any problems at all...

The only thing I would say is that if the native DXi versions of the plugins are failing, then it is unlikely that the blame can be placed at the door of the wrapper itself...

I don't dare un-install the NI items, I had a heck of a time getting them registered with the system in place. It took weeks alone for the Bosendorfer 290... vapor was another pain.. NI / eastwest, isn't very fast on the responce...

I do have VS 6 and I guess I will give that a try... just what to do if that is? I guess I can try to find on the cd... but which one?

I have screen snap shots to show the error. Sent them to cakewalk and ni but nada back...

I'll note back here what I find out... not going to do this at the moment...
in production phase on some tracks at this time...

my work around is to open them up outside sonar and record in useing a wide end run on the sequence in sonar or just loading it to one of the synths and or live... would be nice to get it back in the box...

yea I do have that on both checked... if I don't it's snap pop and crackle.. the sounds breaks up but...
I can't open them up in p5 to get that far... it fails on load...

that's not good news on the freeze of the track with that off... one of the big things NI lectured me on in the past and this issue too is DS on as well as set up right with the buffers set right... also background set in the OS system options etc...
PIV 2.52 with a gig of ram...
and yes I did give it a got with
new project, only instrument etc... even some of the samples then sub it out...

It's a load issue on them... the ppg from steinberg? not even related to NI and it fails to load...

all my syntheidt things I made, use or have, in fact most other things I have and that is a lot, work.. just these 3...

Now that you tell me the DS doesn't work right for freeze, which I use a lot of.. maybe it's not worth fixing. A wave is a wave.. I can record and import in.. even be clever and section it to nudge or drop p5 work back out to sonar for that...

thanks for that info... puts a differnet light on this chasing the ghost..

Drop me your email address...

dale

Had a few minutes...
removed all items in the vst add menu on the vst wrapper program.
pointed it to the two vst's in question.
re-scanned them, took the defaults and let it run.

open p5, add a instrument... choose NI vapor this time.. got the message about memory, not installed right, copyright protection etc...
said it will disable the plugin. It placed it in the folder with it's name. Click to open it, get the next big error... the dll, cwvst.dll cause the exception etc... I have gig screen shots of this... So trace that file down, shows 1 april 2005 last modified. Which is also the date I think I got the chance to install P5 ver 2. Might be wrong on that as I don't remember...
anyway
created 16 nov 2003...
file version is 4.4.4.150 version 4.4.4

Here are some other items noted...
P5 and say vapor, vapor will not play sustaned notes with crackles and pops.. this is using ASIO driver, WDM and on do the same or don't play at all. Does this with and without the direct stream.. close P5, works fine. I have about 1 gig ram. I noted that with vapor and P5 up I was down to near 300 meg. I also have direect stream on vapor max...
It's a older system with ddr 260 something for ram, so I might be able to add some more. Just did not need to before...
Stand alone vapor plays fine.. a few pops here and there but nada.. I been around the block with NI on this for a long time and nada they said other than it's your MOTU card worked.

NI support isn't that fast... I spend nearly 3 days to get a email back and a week for most things. I even talked to them at last NAMM on this... It's the East West product line they seem not to support rapidly. That is why I don't own more NI items. I held off their sampler for this reason and the Bosendorfer till last NAMM.

I did leave a note in the forum at NI as well as some support things about a week ago.. no word...

That was why I gave it a try here. Otherwise, I be back in lurk mode just reading...
Also the last cakewalk email back said, try the forum...

All good ideas here so far... most I given a shot...
Got a few more minutes to test out one more item... a big what if, I set the ASIO in P5 to 44.1 at 16 and vapor the same, will it load? I have them both set to 48KHz at 24 bit. I am not sure I given this combo a try...

dale

VST Wrapper
Cakewalk VST wrapper version 4

Sorry, I figured everyone here was using this to get VSTs in Sonar and P5. Others work too to get them in there?

I have only the two NI items... I would only have 1 but last Jan at NAMM the guy there said if I buy the Bosendorfer 290, the files it has would fix the problems I had with Vapor, the snap crackle pop, that I worked with almost a year with NI on to fix. I got that settled with a combination of Bosendorfer and other adjustments I keep working with.

I had already had in my mind, not to buy anything else NI due to support, hardware and people. Just too hard to get answers. I am not going to get rid of my MOTU 24i anytime soon... which was the last word on the vapor issue. I took the risk, bought the Bosendorfer, work fine stand alone now. It did work in Sonar 4.x for a while.. I am sure it's something to do with the dll I posted. Not so much a NI issue unless it's the way it works with it? Which is why the note Cakewalk gives you has a list. The very last thing is contact both them and the maker. I did.

Update, changing the rate from 48KHz at 24 bit to 44la KHz at 16 was a no go...
same error, same deal... the debug brings up cakewalk cwvst.dll .


dale

Another thought just occurred to me: have you tried a VST host with these plugins? I would suggest trying the demo of another host that doesn't use the VST adapter and see if the plugins load fine into that (try Tracktion or something like that). If the plugins crash Tracktion, then you know the issue isn't adapter based but is symptomatic of a larger problem...if they don't, then it would seem to be a Cakewalk related problem.

Tracktion
I can add them there. I see them as VST and DXI.
Since this is a free version, I see them not listed in the filters for output.. so I can't test...
I am very un-familar with it. I played with it a few times but never got the hang of it to use it.

If you know how, do tell me and I will give it a try. I can see rewire devices etc... P5 of course... vsampler too.

Update..
for GP's
I added cameleon 5000 to the tracktion list. It showed up, was able to access. Did not get any sound from it but it's late here and I just said... fine...

I don't get how tracktions works it's pluging, you add them path wise, then scan, it then show a list before to ignore. Vapor and Bosendorfer are there dxi and vst, but when I added cameleon 5000, it show up at the path area but not in the list below...
however, if you place a filter at the end of a midi track, you see it listed to select.

no sound was when it was open, I hit the keys on it... in P5 and Sonar, you get a sound...
figured I need to check the output further down the line to see if it was heading to the moto card...

bottom line, vapor and bonsendorfer do not show up in the pull down list...

I guess I will have to bite the bullet and reinstall them both... time to turn in for today...
fight this again another day...

Oh I do have the gig's of patches(samples) for these two on the hard drive.

Well, I know NI tech support can be slow, but registration support got back to me within a few days, so it might be a good idea to e-mail them about the difficulty you had getting them registered, in case it comes down to having to do it again. Sometimes, unfortunately, it does come down to a reinstall of the whole system. If you do, and you get it working, make a disk image! Norton Ghost 9 and drive Image 7 both screw up the NI authorizations for some reason, but Ghost 2003 is fine.