smithers20
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Using Side-Chains
Hi,
I'd like to use the sidechain input to trigger and gate pad sounds.
For example: A HiHat track should trigger Sonar's Comp/Gate which is in the insert bus of a pad sound tack.
Does anyone know how to do ?
smithers
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wwwill
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 12:07:43
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You could use the db-audioware compressor. It is the only plugin I have got true sidechaining to work. If you are trying to gate you sounds to a set pattern why not use a gate that syncs to tempo; unless you are using a specific hi hat pattern.
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smithers20
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 13:04:08
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Using a tempo synchronized gate is too static.
The whole dynamic of the hihat track wil be destroyed. On the other hand I'd also like to use the sidechain for ducking (for example: bass / bassdrum).
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lfm
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 14:11:23
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Antifreeze
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 16:32:43
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You could use the db-audioware compressor.
It is the only plugin I have got true sidechaining to work.
Care to elaborate? I thought true side-chaining was impossible in Sonar (ie. output of track1 routed to the sidechain input of a compressor/gate which then acts upon track2 when triggered). Maybe you mean you can do it with a stereo track, with the left part providing the key input and the right part being compressed? This isn't true sidechaining though; just a horrible messy work-around. If you have found a way to side chain a compressor properly, I will be estatically happy! Please give details!
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Nate
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 16:39:36
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If you have found a way to side chain a compressor properly, I will be estatically happy!
The db stuff allows the key inserts to send to another track.
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 16:56:57
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waves c1 works using one channel of a stereo input as a sidechain. Simplest method IMO is to place both the clips on one track, then use clip envelopes to pan one clip left and one clip right, thus setting up your sidechaining!
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roughly
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 19:29:40
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sinc
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/05 21:03:37
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If you have found a way to side chain a compressor properly, I will be estatically happy!
Please give details!
LOL...  People don't seem to understand... Maybe it's too good too be true! ...Or maybe people just need one more detail, such as a link: db-Audioware Dynamics Processor I think it "cheats", but it works...
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Antifreeze
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 05:16:59
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I tested out the db compressor and it seems to work ok. So the question is then, why do none of the other compressors (some costing hundreds of dollars) not instigate this kind of a 'workaround' for Sonar? It doesn't make sense.
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 09:30:13
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ORIGINAL: Antifreeze
I tested out the db compressor and it seems to work ok. So the question is then, why do none of the other compressors (some costing hundreds of dollars) not instigate this kind of a 'workaround' for Sonar? It doesn't make sense.
but they DO. see my post on the way the Waves C1 works ORIGINAL: Antifreeze
If you have found a way to side chain a compressor properly, I will be estatically happy!
Please give details! Quit moaning and pay attention!!!  Seriously though, what exactly do you think is the "proper" way to do it? The waves and db methods are both easier than the way it worked with hardware and a real desk. Care to elaborate on how you'd like it to work?
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sinc
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 13:23:14
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Seriously though, what exactly do you think is the "proper" way to do it? I don't know if it's the "proper" way to do it, but at least it works... <begin rant> That would be the VST specification. It allows for any plugin to have multiple MIDI and/or Audio inputs and/or outputs. The DX spec does not. In my biased opinion, it is another example of how Microsoft takes a piece of fully-functional technology and distorts it into a less-functional, Windows-only version, which they spew on the market, using their virtual OS monopoly. Shame on Cakewalk for encouraging it (not that they had much choice). The regular re-engineering of industry standards into less-capable MS-specific standards is a major beef I've had with Microsoft for a long time... <end rant> End result is third-party solutions, like the db-Audioware stuff and the DirectiXer, which "bypass" the DX spec by creating additional ports that are not allowed in the spec. Technically, they "cheat", but if it works... 
post edited by sinc - 2005/08/06 13:29:16
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Tonmann
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 13:54:39
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ORIGINAL: roughly
Hey there,
i'd like to use a REAL one in sonar too!
Please go beg on the http://www.cakewalk.com/support/featurerequest.asp ,(i do regularly but ...) i think they would like to know that MANY of us could use it.
jeffrey
I just did so. ;) cheers, Chris
...maybe I never realized the joy till the joy was gone...
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Scott Reams
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 14:12:40
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ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
waves c1 works using one channel of a stereo input as a sidechain. Simplest method IMO is to place both the clips on one track, then use clip envelopes to pan one clip left and one clip right, thus setting up your sidechaining!
One could also use a bus and panned pre-fader sends to do this... without having to force both clips onto the same track. This allows each to have its own FX bin and track parameters. -S
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 14:48:30
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Weren't DirectX plugins around before VST? I thought Sound Forge had been using them for years? If you don't like MS, then go with an alternative, go on I dare you. ORIGINAL: sinc
Seriously though, what exactly do you think is the "proper" way to do it?
I don't know if it's the "proper" way to do it, but at least it works...
<begin rant>
That would be the VST specification. It allows for any plugin to have multiple MIDI and/or Audio inputs and/or outputs. The DX spec does not. In my biased opinion, it is another example of how Microsoft takes a piece of fully-functional technology and distorts it into a less-functional, Windows-only version, which they spew on the market, using their virtual OS monopoly. Shame on Cakewalk for encouraging it (not that they had much choice).
The regular re-engineering of industry standards into less-capable MS-specific standards is a major beef I've had with Microsoft for a long time...
<end rant>
End result is third-party solutions, like the db-Audioware stuff and the DirectiXer, which "bypass" the DX spec by creating additional ports that are not allowed in the spec. Technically, they "cheat", but if it works...
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Scott Reams
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 14:59:27
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That would be the VST specification. It allows for any plugin to have multiple MIDI and/or Audio inputs and/or outputs. The DX spec does not. In my biased opinion, it is another example of how Microsoft takes a piece of fully-functional technology and distorts it into a less-functional, Windows-only version, which they spew on the market, using their virtual OS monopoly. Shame on Cakewalk for encouraging it (not that they had much choice). On the contrary... kudos to Cakewalk for trying to push forward a plugin standard that isn't controlled by just one of the audio/MIDI software manufacturers. As long as VST is the primary plugin format and is owned by Steinberg, those who use any other software package will be at Steinberg's mercy. -S
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evan
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 15:34:25
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ORIGINAL: Scott Reams
ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
waves c1 works using one channel of a stereo input as a sidechain. Simplest method IMO is to place both the clips on one track, then use clip envelopes to pan one clip left and one clip right, thus setting up your sidechaining!
One could also use a bus and panned pre-fader sends to do this... without having to force both clips onto the same track. This allows each to have its own FX bin and track parameters.
-S
Do you mean panning kick to the left, bass to the right and then routing both tracks to a bus? And how do you center again those two tracks?
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Antifreeze
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 16:42:02
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Seriously though, what exactly do you think is the "proper" way to do it? The waves and db methods are both easier than the way it worked with hardware and a real desk. Care to elaborate on how you'd like it to work?
I like the db-audioware solution; I don't particularly like the compressor though. I haven't tried the Waves compressor. My point was, I have lots of other compressor plugins, and none of them can sidechain properly in Sonar (but they sidechain in other sequencers according to their websites). Why are there only two compressors that have this ability within Sonar? Why do we have a choice of only two? What is the problem? Some sources say it is Sonar's fault, and some sources say it is the DX architecture. Well, even if the DX architecture doesn't allow it directly, how come none of the other plugins manufacturers have bothered to instigate sidechains like db-audioware and Waves have? I don't see the problem; if two can do it, then they should all bloody well do it, because sidechaining is a basic function of these processors, no? Before I read this thread it was given that sidechaining in Sonar was just impossible without using the stupid 'stereo-track workaround'. Now I find two compressors that can sidechain properly between tracks! I just don't understand. What the hell is the problem with these effects manufacturers then? Why deny us sidechain ability for no apparent reason? Is this an evil capitalistic plot?
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UnderTow
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/06 18:21:57
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Antifreeze, Waves doesn't really do it properly either. It uses one channel of a stereo channel as a side chain to the other channel. So AFAIK, the DB compressor is the only one that does it properly.
ooblecaboodle, Why don't YOU stop moaning? People are asking for improvements and you **** at them? Sheesh. Anyway, AFAIK, you can't side-chain compress STEREO tracks with the C1. And even on mono tracks, it is a pain ...
Evan, you send the output to a mono bus. Ugly work arround but it works ...
It would be nice if CakeWalk could add a side chain send and receive to the Sonitus compressor ...
UnderTow
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evan
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/07 04:08:02
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Evan, you send the output to a mono bus. Ugly work arround but it works ... Thanks UnderTow, what a mess!
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Zazkuash
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/08 21:25:40
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THIS IS WOULD BE ONE OF THE IMPORTANT FEATURES FOR SONAR 5. LOGIC HAVE THIS FEATURE, SONAR MUST TO HAVE IT 
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evan
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/09 06:27:53
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 It would be better if it was a 4.0.4 feature.
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bermuda
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/09 09:18:45
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ORIGINAL: Scott Reams
ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
waves c1 works using one channel of a stereo input as a sidechain. Simplest method IMO is to place both the clips on one track, then use clip envelopes to pan one clip left and one clip right, thus setting up your sidechaining!
One could also use a bus and panned pre-fader sends to do this... without having to force both clips onto the same track. This allows each to have its own FX bin and track parameters.
-S
Hey Scott. How exactly do you set this up and operate and the logic behind it in Sonar. Tried to figure it out, but my head is not working today. Do you send a full signal pre fader to bus which is then Panned 100% left on the bus whilst the output of this bus is to the track with eg the bassline (to duck for the Bass drum to be heard). So the bass line then ....ahhh stuck! Both bass and Bass drum tracks go to separate busses, one panned left and one panned right. Those busses are routed to 3rd bus with the compressor? Nope still not got it as original signals are still unaffected? sigh ! thanks
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/09 09:54:21
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If you then send the compressed/gated signal to a bus, and switch the bus to mono mode, you're away. If you've got the waves C1 compressor, then I'll gladly email you a sonar project to demonstrate. Do you mean panning kick to the left, bass to the right and then routing both tracks to a bus? And how do you center again those two tracks?
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newkulturstudios
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/10 00:35:42
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Or... if you've got the C1, maybe you have the S1?
In which case you could use its width control to turn the output of the C1 to mono.
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: Using Side-Chains
2005/08/10 05:27:10
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yeah, I suppose that would work, I just prefer to use as few plugins as possible, only using them when necesary
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