stefanazar
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vocal recording signal chain opinions please
Greetings, I 'd like opinions on what pivitol piece of gear will have the biggest impact on sweetening up vocal recordings. I know it's an over simplistic question BUT is there 1 element in the chain that can be the "eureka" piece of gear? Currently I'm using an AT4033a into to a Behringer2442a board bussed to a Layla3g. I tried directly inputting the mic to the Layla with negligible results either negative or positive. I'm contemplating whether a different mic (suggestions?) or a fancy preamp (with compressor?) or a fancy AD/DA converter (suggestions?) is the key. I've heard that the C1 mic is great and given the price, whats to lose though price isn't the prominent issue here. BTW the AT4033a can sound a bit brassy in certain ranges but is it the mic, pre, converter? oy vey Thank you [code][/code]
post edited by stefanazar - 2005/08/06 14:51:53
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ColinB52
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/06 16:50:06
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Stefanazar,
Well, the truth is........
You're only as good as your weakest link.
A good microphone can sound poor with a cheap pre-amp,
and a cheap mic can sound ok with a good pre-amp.
I have a range of mics, and the most consistently 'nice!' sound
comes from my AKG C4000, but it doesn't suit every singer.
I would suggest your Behringer 2442 desk is probably not doing you
any favours, the ones I've used always seem tostruggle to provide
a decent phantom power supply. I will probably be sot down in flames by
the Behringer brigade - but it's just what I have seen.
I have a Soundtracs desk, and my AT4033 sounds nice too, although it's
not as smooth as the C4000.
I suggest you go down to the nearest music shop which has a range of
mics/pre-amps/etc, and spend an afternoon auditioning them all.
You normally find places helpful, as they want your money.
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Bonzos Ghost
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/06 17:13:44
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I agree with ColinB52 on all points he brought up. I have a 4033 as well. A good mic for many applications, but no mic is perfect for everything. Good mic preamps can make a BIG difference. Don't overlook that part of the chain.
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attalus
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/06 17:50:56
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Make sure you check out the Shure ksm32 while your at the store auditioning many mics.It's what i use and it is good.Shure mics are durable and for a long time they have set the standards when it comes to affordable mics with great quality.I also "STRONGLY " recommend software called Voxiformer (for vocals) by Voxengo's, it's a vocal channel strip. Some convolution reverb aswell like Sir (freeware) or pristine space light by voxengo.These two software combo's are comparable to some of the best hardware!But for "faaaaaarrr" less. They can bring very great and dramatic improvements to your audio! www.voxengo.com
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DaveT
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/06 19:28:21
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Plug that 4033 into a Manley Vox Box, then direct to your sound card. It will pretty much blow your socks off!! At about $3500 each a Vox Box ain't cheap. But then, well, you know..... you get what you pay for.
DaveT
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jayhill
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/09 21:04:17
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I also "STRONGLY " recommend software called Voxiformer (for vocals) by Voxengo's, it's a vocal channel strip. Some convolution reverb aswell like Sir (freeware) or pristine space light by voxengo. I'll 2nd this recommendation. Regards, J
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studiodork
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/09 21:09:34
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My Neumann U87 into the Avalon sounds pretty darn good...
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Rigel Russell
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/09 22:20:42
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stefanazar,
My 2 cents: The preamp does seem to be your weak link. What's best for you to get will depend alot on your budget, and what you'd say is missing in the sound. You may be looking for a "character" preamp (think aggresive rock vocals), or a very clean/utmost clarity pre. WARNING: The expensive "clarity" preamps may not be very flattering for any who are not excellent vocalists (I'd be in the "not" category myself).
The pieces that did it for me were the SP C1 mic (about 200) and Focusrite Penta (about 400). I run a balanced TRS line from there into a Delta 1010.
If you get brassy with the 4033, I wouldn't recommend the C1. You might want a tube mic - I also have the MXL V69-ME tube mic (about 300), which I use almost exclusively for a female voice that gets brassy with the C1. The Penta has their Platinum range mic pre, and the opto-compressor section has presets that can also be manually tweaked. The "Vocal" preset on this thing really does give some instant gratification. Kinda/sorta a poor-man's Avalon. However, if you're looking in the 1000 + range, you have alot more choices in big-boy preamps like Manley, Great River, Neve, Amek, Focusrite blue or red models, API, Avalon, Vintech (Neve clone) etc.
I'd consider ANY of the Focusrite Platinum series (like I have), as well as your 4033 and Layla, as mid-range gear. And I believe we can do some incredible things with "mid-range" gear. The Behringer mixer might still be used effectively for monitor levels, and extra pre's for backline instruments (this is what my Mackie does now), but as a lead vocal preamp it's definitely a weak link.
Happy tracking!
Rigel
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rumbum
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/10 15:41:41
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i'm a newbie, certainly. does the mic plug directly into the focusrite? or do i plug the focusrite into another part of my system?
i see a focusrite platinum PENTA Stereo Compressor Pre Amp on ebay for around $100.
i have a $600 AT mic
sonar 4.0
aardvark interface (i know, i know)
thanks so much.
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ohhey
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/10 15:56:34
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ORIGINAL: stefanazar
Greetings,
I 'd like opinions on what pivitol piece of gear will have the biggest impact on sweetening up vocal recordings. I know it's an over simplistic question BUT is there 1 element in the chain that can be the "eureka" piece of gear?
..
Thank you[code][/code]
What type of voice and style of music ? And what is wrong with the sound you get now ? Chooseing a mic and preamp for vocals is not a price game. You have to find the mic that's right for the voice and the song. That could be a $80 SM57 or a $2500 U87, it depends. A good clean mic pre will let you hear what the mic sounds like so you can make a fair evaluation. I use the Grace 101 for that. If you get close with the mic you choose but want a slight tweek in tone or presense from the pre then you can shop for a tube or Neve style solid state pre to top things off. If at that point the sound is right while monitoring direct but doesn't have the same sound on playback look to upgrade the converters.
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rumbum
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/10 16:02:02
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rock and roll, pop rock . . . that kind of thing. i have a good voice, good pitch and lots of experience in the studio (singing, not twiddling).
i love the mic--i chose it after sampling dozens. i'm plugging it into an aardvark analogtodigital thing (which has the phantom power included). i guess it sounds fine--though perhaps a little "distant" on recordings. i was drawn in by the discussion where many users mentioned that a pre-amp was a necessity.
would i still require the interface, or would the pre-amp plug into another input?
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smk
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/10 16:11:59
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Here's my suggestion:
AT 4047 (used off ebay) into
FMR Really Nice Pre into
Lynx L22
That should yield some nice results...
______________________________________________ You only live once...
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ohhey
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/10 16:12:50
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ORIGINAL: rumbum
rock and roll, pop rock . . . that kind of thing. i have a good voice, good pitch and lots of experience in the studio (singing, not twiddling).
i love the mic--i chose it after sampling dozens. i'm plugging it into an aardvark analogtodigital thing (which has the phantom power included). i guess it sounds fine--though perhaps a little "distant" on recordings. i was drawn in by the discussion where many users mentioned that a pre-amp was a necessity.
would i still require the interface, or would the pre-amp plug into another input?
The preamp would plug into your sound card "line" input, NOT mic input. That is exactly what a preamp does is bring the low mic signal up to line level. Your choice of preamp makes a little difference in the sound but not any where near the difference between two mics so if you like this mic for your voice you are most of the way there. As for the distant sound in the mix you can fix that. Most of the time that's just a matter of getting the dynamics just right and that should be done in the mix, not during tracking. You can use the clip gain envelope to get each word about the right level and then add a compressor to smooth things out even more if needed. In some cases you might need to EQ out some of the very low end so you can bring the vocal up in the mix without swamping it or causing the compressor to freak out and start limiting based on those lows. The EQ should do in the effect bin first and then the compressor if needed. If you work the mic a little and get closer on the quiet parts and farther back on the loud notes you can make the job easier. Also, once you get good at using the clip gain envelope you might not need to use a compressor on most songs.
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ohhey
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RE: vocal recording signal chain opinions please
2005/08/10 16:39:53
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ORIGINAL: smk
Here's my suggestion:
AT 4047 (used off ebay) into
FMR Really Nice Pre into
Lynx L22
That should yield some nice results...
I'll second that list if the mic works for you. You can't go wrong with an RNC and L22.
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