4.0.3 problem?: no sound from softsynths in old file

Hi,
I waited until some of the dust settled before installing the 4.0.3B update and all seemed well with playback when I loaded projects created before the update was installed ... at first, anyway. (I have not yet attempted to record, so I don't know about that yet.)

A project created before the 4.0.3 update patch was installed contains instances of Edirol VSC and Virtual Sampler 3.5 that will not produce any sound.

The LED meters on the Edirol are active, showing that it is creating audio in response to MIDI, but no sound appears anywhere in SONAR.

The VS3 generates an 8-line error message about a .dll file and calling procedures that are failing.

The Music Labs Ryhthm N Chords beat bar no longer moves. (the 4.0.2-compatible Music Labs update had fixed that same problem only 3 months ago.)

If I insert new instances of the Edirol or VS3 synths I get sound, but not from the existing ones no matter what I do.

Anyone seen these things or know exactly what causes them?

--thndrsn

Just in case you haven't, check all port assignments on the wacky tracks to make sure the audio track's inputs are set for the right synth.

VirtualSampler 3 produces no sound and generates an error message in a text box infoming me that I must send it to SpeedSoft. It's full of statements about exceptions, addresses, and calling procedures that generated (an) error(s) (8 lines of text). (BTW I'm using a VS3.5 that I purchased directly from Maz, updating the 2.7 that I purchased directly from SpeedSoft when I was running SONAR 2.2XL. I don't have SONAR 3.)

If a new insertion of the VS3 works fine, maybe it's a problem with the location of the sample set.

(I should mention that before the project had finished loading there was a dialog box saying that there were new VST plugins and asking me if I wanted to process them. I had installed additional EWQL and FXTeleport VSTs since this project was last accessed, but this project doesn't use any of them. Uncomprehending, I clicked OK and waited for a while while unknown processes "fixed" something.)

There's not any dialog from the VST Adapter once Sonar is running, only during installation or when explicitly running it.

Inserting new instances of the Edirol and VS3 plugins is a workaround, since these will produce audio.

Don't know if this is a related problem, anyway here goes: just came across one project with nothing more than 2 instances of Absynth 3.0.2 in it, both playing the same patch. One instance was fine, the other won't produce any sound. Even Absynth's own meters didn't indicate any output, whether played via controller or with Aby's virtual keyboard or PRV keyboard.

Checked all settings, switched to another patch - nothing! Absynth's surround panner was set all the way to "rear", which was definitely not set up this way. I had to insert a new instance and everything was fine again.

The project was created with 4.0.2, but it could be a mere coincidence, dunno. It seems to me that sometimes a plug-in instance (its data) gets corrupted.

werner

EDIT: this was the DXi version btw.

ORIGINAL: thndrsn

Thanks, Brian,
I did check the assignments. Double-checked them, I should say, since this was a project that was working fine before I installed the 4.0.3 update. (Although, the last thing I did with the project before closing pre-update was export a stereo mix to .wav. Still, all the assignments look good.)

As for the dialog saying that new VSTs were found, this was after an installation of an upgrade, if that could explain it, and after moving the folder pathnames in the Options/Global/Folders menu away and back to the SONAR 2 folder that, for some reason, SONAR 4 had set when it was first installed. (I don't quite understand this. SONAR 4 created its own Sample Content folder in its own SONAR 4 Producer Edition folder, and then set all the paths to Cakewalk\SONAR 2\... ??? I discovered this recently, changed the paths to SONAR 4, and when this current problem showed up, changed them back to see if it had any effect, but it didn't. Paths are again set to SONAR 4 now.)

Okay that's confusing, so here's the sequence of events... (with many omissions for the sake of length)
1. Installed SONAR 2.2XL on a brand new DAW (to get the DR008 that came with it)
2. Installed SONAR 4.0.0 on this same system.
3. Updated to 4.0.1.
4. Updated to 4.0.2.
5. Installed update for RnC Pro so that it works with SONAR 4.0.2.
6. Created and edited this problem project.
7. Installed some additional VST instruments and ran the VST wrapper (several times. 5 NI products, Sound Forge 8.0., FXTeleport LAN VSTs on another computer)
8. Bought and installed the latest DR008. (v1.20)
9. Discovered that the all the pathnames (except the project and audio, which I had manually set) were pointing at the SONAR 2 folder.
10. Edited the paths to point to \SONAR 4 Producer Edition\'s \Sample Content\ folder.
11. Installed the 4.0.3 update.
12. Loaded this problem project and had the problems mentioned, including the dialog box asking me if I wanted to process the "new" (but previously-wrapped) VST plugins.
13. Said "YES" and waited for a good while. Clicked on "YES" again when the hourglass went away later but nothing happened. Dilaog box went away then.
14. Had the other problems described. Changed the paths to SONAR 2 again. Changed them back to SONAR 4 again. Same either way.
(Whew! I admire anyone's patience who is still reading this.)
--thndrsn

bermuda,
Wow! Thanks for the feed back, You've got stamina, to plough through all that I wrote about this.

Not sure what you mean "was SONAR 4 an update to SONAR 2.2XL?" As I said, this is a new DAW and I installed SONAR 2.2 XL first to get the DXi instruments (DR008, mainly), to get my Slicey and Fillin' Drummers going, and to facilitate importing old projects made on my laptop (where SONAR 2.2XL was first installed).

Yes, I rebooted after each of these things. Actually this list spans a period of several months, so there were many other things done in between steps listed here. Did I reboot after installing the 4.0.3 update before doing anything else? Hmmm. I don't recall, actually. I can't say for sure. I did make images of all my system partitions right before the upgrade, and planned to do the same right afterward, but I tested the system after the upgrade before making new disk images, and then kicked myself when these problems showed up, since they showed up before I had imaged the drive. So, mmm, perhaps not, then.

It's not faders. I checked them all. No, soundcard is same. No, I didn't run the wave profiler. I'll have to check the VST wrapper and see if I have the latest version, but I suspect it is, and further, that whatever happened has to do with the fact that I installed additional VST instruments after the last access of this file, since only these showed up in the list. What seems odd to me is that this project does not use any of these instruments.

As for reinstalling the Edirol... but it plays just fine if I load a new instance, as I said. It's only the pre--existing instances in this pre-update project that won't play. I may eventually try that and see what happens, but I'd like to get somewhat more feedback about how SONAR interacts with plugins, how an update can effect that, and have a better understanding on possible causes of this problem before doing so. After all, the Edirol was installed before SONAR 4.0.0, 4.0.1, and 4.0.2 without causing this. (But, on the other hand, no projects were ever created in SONAR 4.0.0 or 4.0.1, either.)

To be fair, I have only tested this one pre-existing project with Edirol and VS3 instances. I have to see what's going on with some other projects before I'll know if this is a typical or an atypical thing. I've not had much time to experiment and explore these things yet.

Could the cause for this simply be that I had mixed everything to a bus that was sent to the exported file? Am I missing something obvious here? Because: I checked the signal path, MIDI to Edirol, Edirol responding to MIDI (Edirol LED VUs jumping), Edirol out sending to MOTU Headphones out = no sound in headphones. Then I inserted a new doo-dad, sent it to headphones, heard sound. (???) So, it's definately not Edirol vol=0, not MIDI on wrong channel, not sounds not loaded.

"...something funky with mutes takes...?" I did loop record multiple takes on one track, but...

Yes, I saw the "Do you want to register VSTs now or later?" window. I chose "now" and selected "Scan existing," and "Recan failed," and the update process registered all the VSTs once again (as it has before) during the 4.0.3 update installation.

The thing I refer to in this problem description is a completely different thing, one I had never seen before. It occurred after this, after I loaded and played several files that actually use some of the plugins in question, when I was loading the problem project. It bore absolutely no resemblance to the Cakewalk VST-DXi wrapper utility. If I recall correctly it had a button on the right that said "All", it had check marks to the left of each item in the list, it had buttons at the bottom that said "Process", (I believe it was "process" and not "scan") "Ignore" (or "Cancel"), and another one if I recall. I should have written all this down, but I just wanted to proceed, so I clicked the "Yeah, Whatever" button (or so it seemed), since I assumed it was just a normal thing when loading an old project following the installation of new plugins.

I may be dealing with more than one cause here, since there is a SONAR 2/SONAR 4 "folders path" issue as well as an "installed new plugins-opened old project" issue, as well as an "installed 4.0.3 update" issue and any given one of these problems could be the result of one or more of these issues.

Thanks for that information about the RnC 4.0.3 update fix update. I was hoping that would be the case. Well, as long as Music Labs is fixing it, that's one less thing to worry about.

--thndrsn