behringer the best small controller? (just faders,knobs)

so far ive seen the BCR2000 and the BFC2000 but they seem a little big.

Hmm ... smaller than a BCX controller? The only thing that immediately comes to mind within that limitation s the X-Session controller from M-Audio. 16 knobs, 10 buttons, and one crossfader (all programmable). IIRC, Guitar Center was blowing these out last year for $79 US.

Hmm ... smaller than a BCX controller?

Actually B-rock, Behringer does have a new little guy, the BCN44 -- the Nano. It's cute, simple, and cheap if that's what you're looking for (Behringer's product page says it's only available in Europe but there are state-side sites that list it). The only downside I see is that's it only has MIDI in-out ports, no USB, and is powered by either batteries or a wall wart.

On a more general topic, what's the 411 on Behringer gear? The prices are almost obscenely low which would give one pause. But every review I've read has been overwhelmingly positive across their entire line, even from the sober pages of SoundOnSound. I've actually got my eye on a couple of their Ultragain Tube preamps.

TUBE ULTRAGAIN T1953 2-Channel Tube Microphone/Line Preamplifier
ULTRAFEX T1954 2-Channel Tube Multiband Sound Enhancement System

At $130 a pop it's hard to go wrong. Unless of course they actually go "Pop!".


Techead:
Yeah I remember those days, soldering iron in hand. While it's very satisfying when the thing actually works, I doubt the component costs would end up being any cheaper than a Chinese import unless you had some wholesale access to parts. Blister packs from The Shack or Fry's will end up killing you in the end.

But I'm sure Dan Deacon has a in somewhere...


Bradster

"Why build when you can buy?"

So if the Behringer can emulate a Mackie Controller, and the Mackie is supported in SONAR, does this mean that the BFC2000 will work seamlessly in SONAR?

This is probably the wrong forum to be asking this, but it's a good data point nonetheless.

ORIGINAL: Bradster
"Why build when you can buy?"

I know what you mean...on the other hand there is the sheer joy of creating something unique that no other musician has and can be modified at will without worrying about the warranty (not that I particulary care about warranties). I am so tempted...

B rock,

You know I will be baited when you mention controllers and the BCF2000 LOL

It's about the size of a laptop in your desk.

Yes I own one of these beauties and it works well with Sonar 2.2 XL, Sonar 3.1.1 and Sonar 4.03 With My BCF200 and my Sonar 3.1.1 I have the following Functionality under Mackie Emulation Mode:

*Motorized 100 mm fader
*Mute on individual tracks
*solo on individual tracks
*Fader touch will select track in Sonar
*Track select in Sonar will select the BCF2000 channel and light up a channel select button.
*Aux sends select
*main send select
*Full L/R panning and it's responsive to automation from Sonar
*Full fader responsive to automation in Sonar.
*Full transport functionality FF, RR, stop, play, record, arm track for recording, go to beginning of track, go to end of track.
*Apply 4 band EQ, apply chorus, apply some FX built in to Sonar, but can be programmed to insert more.
EQ can be added to tracks, and buses; Reverb on track and buses; chorus on tracks and buses plus there is more.

*Upper top 8 button are mapped to any selection available in a list available in the Mackie emulation controller page (select to use F1 - F8 and assign a function to each button from a list in a drop down box).

Insert audio track
Insert midi track
Fit track to window
Fit project to window
Button to select "OK" if winows ask a question like, (Do you want to save project?)
Cancel button to select "NO"
Next window button to swith between all open windows
Close button to close the current open window.
Add Loop markers
set punch-in recording parameters
Undo and redo buttons
Channel up and channel down buttons
Open Mixer window
Open loop file folder
select to see aux sends and apply settings
select main outs and apply settings
select main tracks and applu settings
Pan button to apply Panning on your available tracks

Again, you have 8 available buttons to create what you want that's available in the Mackie emulation settings page. These are the first row of flat buttons on the top, (not the knobs)

Second and third of flat buttons: Each Flat panel buttons on these two rows on the BCF2000 has three functions because there are two shift button. Each button has a default function, Next there is an additional function applied when you press the upper shift button and another function when you press the lower shift button.

If you are composing with more than 8 tracks, then you need add 8 more tracks because the BCF2000 will drop the beginning tracks to bring show the remaining tracks when you use the channel bank button. For instance, if you have 10 track in you project, then you will see the first 8 because ther are only 8 fader. To see the remaining tracks you have to press the channel bank button. Remember that the controller will only allow 8 tracks at a time, so it will drop th first two tracks to allow the full 8 tracks of 2 - 10 to be seen. If you set it up in tracks of 8, then when you press the channel bank button, then tracks 9-16 will show and be available. It doesn't matter if tracks 11- 16 are empty tracks, you are only interested in accessing tracks 9 and 10 and seeing them appear in the proper order.

Special note

cakewalk change the mackie controller file from Sonar 2.2xl to Sonar 3.0. for the ability to have the fader touch highlight the Sonar track, and to have the track select in sonar follow the Track select on the BCF2000, you have to take the MackieControl (Configuration setting) and the MackieControl.dll file out of sonar 2 and replace the Sonar 3 one. Afte using this in Sonar 2.2XL and then removing it from my PC and then installing sonar 3, I immediate noticed the difference and traced it back to these two file. If anyone needs these two files let me know and I will e-mail them to you.

The BCF2000 has very limited functionality in P5 primarily due to the Motorized fader and the 8 responsive rotory knobs used in panning. Some of the buttons can be used with Midi learn in P5, but not all.

Cakewalk support this in P5 PLEASSSSEEE !!!

To see the what it can do in Sonar, look at the BCF2000 Templates and view the one for sonar 3 it will show the function buttons.

I hope this helps


Peace,

ORIGINAL: techead

James,

Have you been using the BCF2000 with Project5? Any tips to share--if so let's put them on the P5 Wiki.

-Techead

Techead,

Not really, The faders motorization has to be turned off to work with Project5 and the Pan pots only rotate left in P5 not right for panning. The only thing I have have full success is with the transport controls. I have Play used for Play/stop, I have stop used for record, because the BCF uses a shift feature to start recording. There are so many buttons features that I will not be able to use because it the shift pressing which is needed for the additional functions. i can midi learn Ff, RW, and a few others

I can Midi learn each mute button, and each solo button, but became frustrated and just stopped attempting o use it in P5 and just reverted back to using in only in Sonar .

I would not purchase it as a dedicated controller for P5 because of the fader issue, the pan pan pot issue, an the shift button issue. you would only be using 1/3 of the functionality even with turning off the motorization.

Currently I use my Oxygen 8 for the midi contoller with P5 only, and I use the BCF2000 for Sonar only, that's one of the reason why I rewire P5 into Sonar. I can finish everything in Sonar and have the BCF2000 as my responsive control unit.

Peace,

Thanks James D!

(now I have the Eagles' "James Dean" in my head...)

I ask for a data point, I get an encyclopedia. You're going to get along just fine in here (welcome, BTW). And you're just what this crowd needs -- another Gear Lust Enabler. Between B-rock, JMeredith, and now you, my Visa doesn't stand a chance. Actually, I'm still working through my Miroslav Peace Dividend, otherwise known as the Pace Slush Fund.

Seriously, thanks for the good news about Behringer. I really wanna like them. It's a perfect price point for home studio noodlers like myself. A $1K Mackie or Yamaha surface is just out of the question, but a $199 BCF -- or even better, a $129 BCR) is a sweet spot. Looking at the whole range of B gear, they're less than half or even a quarter of the price of the cache brands. I'm sure Focusrite, Lexicon, PreSonus, dbx, Aphex, et. al., are better built (though probably still China) products, but are they really worth sometimes 10x the price?

This isn't so much a rant as a, "Wow! Look at all I can get for $130!" exclamation. It just opens up new possibilities.

Yeah, these little minis are cute as a button. Considering they'll probably street for under $40 USD, they're irresistable. I like the sounds of the COM 800 Modeling Compressor myself. Any idea of an ETA?


Of course, the fun part will be figuring out how to route an external FX loop buss out of SONAR through the Firewire 1814 to apply this stuff. B-rock, help!


Bradster

how to route an external FX loop buss out of SONAR through the Firewire 1814 to apply this stuff. B-rock, help!

I'm not sure of the specifics in the driver implementations of either the 1814 or the BCF. But I can branch out part of a track's signal to an Effect Send buss [with FX] in Sonar, then output that directly to one of the mLAN channels in the control surface. Loop that out of the Yamaha to my external hardware, back in to the 01X, then over mLAN again into another return track in Sonar. Complete control over the signal processing every step of the way. I'd hope that you could do the same with the M-Audio FW box and the BCF.

I like this guy James Dean, don't you? His lengthy replies remind me of someone ... can't put my finger on it. He'll make a great D'Artagnen to the Three Gear-Lustkateers. Dibs on first in line at the soup kitchen. Let's just hope Marcella isn't the head server ...

I'm thinking that you've got the routing down, Brad. I just use the spare audio track as a return, then send it to the Master Out. The original track also gets sent to the master, but the Effect Send gets routed to a distinct output of its own, and looped back to the 'return' track.