understanding the mix engine

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Spartan
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2005/09/15 10:23:52 (permalink)

understanding the mix engine

i have realized that what i think i knew was not really enough, could someone please explain to me what is the mix engine and how it works with the software , thank you for your time
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    ohhey
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 10:36:10 (permalink)
    Well... I don't know all the low level programing stuff but it's just a digital mixer just like the software you would find inside a hardware digital mixer like a Yamaha 02R or Mackie D8B. It's using your CPU as the hardware part and taking input from the tracks in Sonar.
    There seems to be more then one way to do it and each piece of software (or mixer for that matter) has it's own special math. I'm sure the code has become very complex over the years I wonder if any one person at Cakewalk even knows how it works LOL !
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    Spartan
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 10:43:16 (permalink)
    maybe the cylons knows how it works
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    bermuda
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 12:45:18 (permalink)
    The cylons are not real, they are the designed foe of a fictional race who live in false hope of populating a planet called earth.

    What I never understand is that they keep landing on planets walking around getting some bits an bobs and then head off on the hunt for Earth.. (what was wrong with that planet???)

    Fair comment that the Cylons are following them etc etc so maybe they don't want to stand still and it is maybe politcal propaganda to the civillians, but crap they are being followed by robots , throw some water at them.

    Actuall it's quite a good show...the advert breaks come in too fast for me though.

     Yes.
    #4
    bitman
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 23:05:28 (permalink)
    I would like to see the audio mix engine be "replaceable" so developers could fashion
    new engines the maybe emulate old hardware like SSL.

    The audio engine is not really a trade secret or even anyone's claim to fame.
    I say let developers tinker with it. Look at, no, listen to the URS EQ stuff. Wow!

    And I'll say it again, the per track EQ should be a chosen plug-in. One EQ
    doesn't fit all. And the per track EQ in Sonar is kinda blah

    I'm off the stump now.
    post edited by bitman - 2005/09/15 23:13:38
    #5
    ohhey
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 23:18:46 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bitman

    I would like to see the audio mix engine be "replaceable" so developers could fashion
    new engines the maybe emulate old hardware like SSL.

    ...


    Yeah.. analog sum bus modeling would be cool but I'm not sure it has to be done at the engine level. I'm thinking you could just put a plugin in the master effects bin and make the output sound any way you wanted. For example use some test tones to determine what the existing sum software does and then create a plugin and does the "difference" between what it does and what the other one would have done. A kind of pre loading of the buss to trick the existing software into reacting different.

    I'm think all parts of Sonar are in fact a trade seceret as long as the Cakewalk is still in business. If I were an investor I would darn sure hope so.
    #6
    Middleman
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 23:35:13 (permalink)
    Well, let's see. I used to be a programmer so I will take a stab at this.

    The Mix Engine is the code which scans all of the wave files i.e tracks you have recorded (lets stick with audio for a second, midi later) and then, because these are just digital bits of 1, and 0s, it adds them together into a two sided audio image, left and right. This left and right image is sent to your soundcard driver (another piece of software) which takes this stereo information and routes it into the chips of the card and ultimately to the output jacks and thus to your speakers.

    The mix engine is a multiported environment with alternate inputs on each track for plug ins and midi input, as well as multiple output ports to other bussing groups or the main buss which once again sends things to the speakers.

    The mix engine also has to take midi data and route it through software synths, an input output process and then combines this non-wave-file based data with the audio data, once again summing the whole thing and creating the final audio image.

    So think of the Mix Engine as this multi armed creature taking input from all over the place, routing it and then sending to other input ports or output ports, then adding everything together in memory and creating a final stereo sound.

    The Mix Engine then, is the code inside your sequencing software that does all this.
    post edited by Middleman - 2005/09/15 23:45:20
    #7
    bitman
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/15 23:41:11 (permalink)
    Sonar's mixing engine is supposed to add the numbers without error.

    That's a secret they can live without don't you think?

    How 'bout some good ole channel crosstalk. emulate 10k summing resistors.
    Analog summing boxes are a tragedy. The prices of them are outrageous.

    And shipping 48 channels(L/R) to an analog box to sum 24 is just wrong (To keep the panorama in the DAW file you see).

    I was gonna DIY a summing box 'till I discovered the panorama issue.







    #8
    ohhey
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/16 00:48:17 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bitman

    Sonar's mixing engine is supposed to add the numbers without error.

    That's a secret they can live without don't you think?

    How 'bout some good ole channel crosstalk. emulate 10k summing resistors.
    Analog summing boxes are a tragedy. The prices of them are outrageous.

    And shipping 48 channels(L/R) to an analog box to sum 24 is just wrong (To keep the panorama in the DAW file you see).

    I was gonna DIY a summing box 'till I discovered the panorama issue.



    Good for you, analog sum boxes are just the latest attempt to sell hardware in a world that no longer needs it. It's a way for snooty "buy my services or your songs will suck because you don't have one of these ______" guys to scare folks into using their studio. It's odd that studios and mastering houses still think the gear is what makes sales and there is hardly a peep in the ad about the real service they do have to offer. If they were to say something like..

    "..look.. buy my service because I know what sounds good and if you don't the most powerful member of the band, or worse some manager, is going to make you the laughing stock of the entire world.. You don't need to know how I do it".

    Now that would scare me into parting with some money.
    #9
    DonM
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    RE: understanding the mix engine 2005/09/16 22:50:04 (permalink)
    Anyone that is serious about the science of summing should read ALL of this:

    http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=15&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

    -D

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