Is my amp loud enough?

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Monkey
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2005/10/11 23:14:46 (permalink)

Is my amp loud enough?

I'm just wondering ('cause I'm looking to buy an amp), what is the minimum amount of watts an amp should be to play comfortably with a set of drums and/or a live band (in rehearsal anyway)? Is wattage even what I should be measuring by? I feel stupid asking considering I've been playing guitar for the last 17 years!! I've got my eye on this amp but it's 60 watts. Is that enough? It's not for metal or anything but a loud enough clean and distorted sound is important. Thanks

In defence of my ignorance. Up until this point, I've lived in an apartment where a loud amp would not be appreciated so I usually played electric unplugged.
#1

22 Replies Related Threads

    Lay In Wait
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/12 00:47:16 (permalink)
    Not sure if yer lookin for a combo amp or head and cab! 60 watts is a little underpowered if lookin to say jam with a drummer, but, on stage it would be fine as they r usually mic'd and run through the house pa! Some of these new heads from Line6 and Krank are puttin out anywhere from 300 to 500 watts, WoW, I know! But in your case I would look for sumthing thats say 100 or 80! There are some real nice 2/12 combo amps on the market today! But nothin beats a 100 watt head and 4/12 cab, in my opinion! Oh by the way I DO play metal with a lot of clean sections in my music, and its nice to have more power than u need sometimes! Your options are almost endless!, I'de go try a few out, or hit up Long and Mcquade for a weekly rental on something, I like to before I buy! Hope that helps a bit!
    #2
    PieterVW
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/12 02:01:14 (permalink)
    60 Watts is plenty. But alot depends on the speakers too. A 60W head on a 4x12 Celestion Vintage 30 cabinet will sound way louder than a 120W 1x12 combo. But basically, once you've got 50/60W, you can play with a drummer, more power in your amp results in more headroom, not really more volume, unless you krank it. Can you give some info on the model you're planning to buy, because there's still alot of difference in volume between 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12, the model of speakers, and if the amp is tube or solid state.
    #3
    Guitslinger
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/12 12:35:02 (permalink)
    You should never feel stupid for asking an intelligent question many people fail to ask and should.

    The qualities of tube amps has little to do with volume and everything to do with distortion characteristics. A 100-watt amp will only be about 10-15% louder than a 50-watt amp--a negligible difference as far as maximum volume goes. How loud is loud enough for playing with a drummer? A 10-watt head is half as loud as a 100-watt head, so once a 25-watt or larger amp is used volume is usually not an issue.

    The sonic difference is that a 50-watt head will start overdriving the tubes and producing distortion before the 100-watt head will. Assuming a person wants to play pretty loud overall, the 50-watt head would be the choice for a rocker needing overdrive or distortion, and the 100-watt head a good choice for someone wanting loud clean tones.

    If you want cranked powertube distortion, smaller amps are preferable, and clean tones usually sacrificed. A 50-watt head pushed to the point the powertubes are breaking up and distorting adequately will be so loud it can cause hearing damage in confined space. Most people these days are relegated to using overdrive or distortion units to keep volume at safe levels, an option every player needs to have available in the event turning up an amp is not feasible.

    Solid state amps are all about volume. A 50-watt or larger solid state amp should be loud enough to jam with a drummer, but you might want to go to a music store and test a few amps turned up to get the needed perspective on volume.

    When playing with a drummer and without a PA or monitors, a 2x12 speaker configuration is the minimum number of speakers needed to project the needed sound. A 4x12 speaker cab will produce considerably greater low end. If a PA and monitors are used, small amps can be miked and will be just as effective as larger ones.


    post edited by Guitslinger - 2005/10/12 12:46:57

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    #4
    Kicker
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/12 19:12:34 (permalink)
    I've found that my Marshall 20/20 amp into a 4x12 8ohm cabinet is perfect for my 4 piece band. In our rehersal space, which is about 500 sq. ft., I stand about 4 feet from the snare drum and the cabinet is about 5 feet behind me. It's loud enough to get my blood flowing at 70% volume. It also fills the room nicely.

    Note that I use a tube preamp and the 20/20 is a tube power amp. Plus I use a multi-band compressor and a full-band compressor in the signal chain. A straight shot from your guitar to the head would probably be a little lower in overall volume.
    #5
    Monkey
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 00:12:59 (permalink)
    Hey,
    Thanks for your informative replies!

    For the record, I'm looking to get a combo amp, probably solid state. It's a financial consideration more than anything.
    While we're on the subject, I might as well take the time to ask for suggestions. I'm easily satisfied with a full-on distortion sound, and I'm not too picky about my clean sound. It's that in-the-middle, slightly distorted area that I'm most concerned with. I usually find that most amps (at least the limited ones I've tried) fail in this crucial area. I'm looking for warmth and clarity, not the harsh uneveness that I usually hear!!
    Any takers?
    #6
    neilius
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 08:32:12 (permalink)
    Make sure it goes to 11!
    #7
    mistahamma
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 08:37:27 (permalink)
    To change your mind, go with tubes -- you won't regret it. A 50 watt 2 X 12 tube combo would suit you just fine. I use a Carvin Belair, and it's plenty loud. Fantastic gigging amp, and I usually only have it turned up to about 3 or 4. Great Fendery clean sounds, and awesome crunch tones for blues and classic rock. Might want to drive it with a stomp box to get heavier tones out of it. Very reasonably priced, too.

    Jim
    #8
    tim_greenwood
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 11:21:42 (permalink)
    If your mind is changeable I'd say go with tubes also. That mid area you're referring to the slightly distorted area you should be able to get by backing your guitars volume down you will never get the sound you are looking for from a solid state amp. Argue with me if you will anyone but I've played them all and there is not a solid state amp out there that can compete with the responsiveness you will get from a tube amp when playing with your guitars volume alone.

    I used to have a Marshall TSL122 combo. 100watts 2x12. Spent $1800 on that (ouch). It did sound nice though. I sold it last year and just picked up a Traynor YCV40T last month for $600. 40watts 2x10 and it sounds every bit as good (better really) than the marshall did. I've fallen in love with this little thing and it has plenty of gain for any jammin situation. Don't let the 2x10 fool you either, this thing really bites hard if that is what you want.
    #9
    boomer
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 11:39:35 (permalink)
    Make sure it goes to 11!


    LOL
    Oh yes, definetly 11!
    #10
    mlockett
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 11:55:38 (permalink)
    Obviously it depends on your needs and the venues you're playing in. Bear in mind, that tube amps sound different as you increase the volume... the saturation of the tubes changes the sound, and most tube amps sound "better" when they're driven a bit. The catch then, is I've often played in venues when I couldn't crank the amp to get the best sound. I played in a smaller venue and used a friends Fender Blues Junior; it sounded great because I could drive it enough to get a warm sound. My 100 watt Mesa Boogie Mark 1, even with the cut to 60 watts, was still way too much power.

    If you're not trying to impress people with big stacks, you might go for a smaller amp... just loud enough to be able to monitor yourself on stage, then mic it for the audience (which you normally have to do anyway).

    My 2 cents.
    #11
    kingjahrome
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 15:46:06 (permalink)
    Since you're already looking at a 60 watt combo amp I can highly recommend the Fender Hot Rod Deville. I've got the 4x10 cabinet but they make a 2x12 as well. It's tube driven and has got a great rock or blues sound.
    Really like the reverb. It comes with a pedal that controls 2 distortion modes: normal and overdriven. Combined with some effect sends its a very versatile sound. From very clean to metal. Seriously this thing is loud enough on 2 and our drummer plays really LOUDLY.

    Plus, ALL CONTROLS GO TO 12!

    OK and I played solid state for 15 years and going to tubes made a huge difference to my sound and the dynamics of playing. George Benson doesn't need tube amps to sound good but I do!
    #12
    Monkey
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/13 23:38:18 (permalink)
    Wow.
    Now you all got me thinking. I was looking into Tech 21's Trademark 60. I was particularly impressed with the MP3 demo's and was thinking about trying one out. It's got some amazing reviews across the board and seemed to fit my needs. However, maybe tubes are the way to go. I don't like a lot of maintenance and most reviews that I've read say that the trademark 60 is the best solid state they've tried even from some tube purist. And coming from the makers of sansamp, I thought that maybe I could kill two birds with one stone and take advantage of their excellent DI as well ( for recording in my apartment). I will definately look into the Carvin and the Fender though.
    ARRGH! What to do?
    #13
    almeister
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 00:03:44 (permalink)
    As far as tubes go, here's a couple suggestions : Peavey Classic 30 maybe? A 50w marshall or Laney? a stereo Measa 20/20 into a 4-10 cab? a 15w Vox mic'ed? Fender's? JCM800 with a pwoer brake? There's a lot of possiblities.

    If you want a modeling amp, there's a lot of options there too. I've got line6 for the versitility (I've also got a Laney AOR 50 w and a Marshall 50/50 so please don't flame me about the line6 stuff guys) of jammin' live in a garage and what not. Vox is supposed to be the shiznit these days though. I'm even thinking about picking up the 15w for grins and giggles. Go to a GC or Scam Ash and try a bunch of stuff out. 60w of power should keep you in the ball park for jammin' though. Just my .02
    #14
    kingjahrome
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 00:26:02 (permalink)
    What to do?


    Play some of them! It's well worth the time spent trying to find what you like.
    #15
    PieterVW
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 04:12:07 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Monkey
    It's that in-the-middle, slightly distorted area that I'm most concerned with. I usually find that most amps (at least the limited ones I've tried) fail in this crucial area. I'm looking for warmth and clarity, not the harsh uneveness that I usually hear!!
    Any takers?


    Well, I know what you want ... a Framus Dragon. The crunch on it is the best crunch I ever heard, the clean is just extremely clean with alot of dynamics, and the lead can be quite heavy. If you could buy a used one and a 2x12 cabinet (Framus makes some good ones for cheap), you'd never need another amp again.

    Might be 'slightly' above your budget, but hey, a good amp is for life!
    #16
    yep
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 15:16:35 (permalink)
    Most people much prefer tubes to solid state.

    All amps sound diffferent at different volumes. Most amps sound best when they are turned all the way up, or close to, and speaker excursion, power amp saturation, and cabinet resonance all come into play to make the speakers bark, chirp, and wail. This is true even of clean sounds.

    In my experience, most guitar players are way too worried about getting enough volume, and end up buying grossly overpowered amps that they never even get a chance to turn all the way up. A 50W marshall stack will blow your head off at full volume and will cause hearing damage to listeners in a 500-seat auditorium.

    Most 15W 1x12 combos will deliver enough volume to keep up with an unamplified drumkit and a bass rig in a typical rehearsal space. A 50W two-speaker combo will fill up a small auditorium with no further amplification. If you are ever in a scenario where the drums are being amplified through a PA and your amp can't keep up, you can always run the amp through the same PA as the drums-- guitar is much easier to amplify than drums are.

    My advice is to pick an amp that sounds good at the volume you plan to play at. Wattage is vague measure at best, when it comes to guitar amps, because the sound is usually fairly saturated, even with "clean" tones. Just shop for amps on a slow day at the guitar store when you can really crank them.

    Cheers.
    #17
    GPM
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 18:42:50 (permalink)
    I agree with Mr. Yep. I had one group in which I used a Mesa Subway Blues amp. I think it was only about 20 watts through a 10 inch speaker. It was plenty loud enough for small clubs and broke up very nicely when cranked. On occassion, we would perform outdoors or in a larger club and I would patch it to a Fender Blues Deluxe which was about 45 watts I think. I also used a Tech 21 XXL distortion pedal for a little extra boost and sustain needed for my slide guitar work. My current amp is a Fender Vibrolux. All of the amps I mentioned have a nice warmth to their sound. I'm not sure how loud your drummer is or how loud you think you must play; however I recommend a good tube amp rated up to 50 watts RMS. You'll be sorry if you don't get a good amp now and settle for a more "affordable" one. You will end up buying what you really want later. If you're worried about the cost, buy a used one.
    post edited by GPM - 2005/10/14 18:53:35
    #18
    plyndanotes
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 19:07:07 (permalink)
    generally if you have an 11 on the volume knob that should be loud enough. If you dont then you might wanna shop around some.
    #19
    Nate
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/14 22:15:24 (permalink)
    I'm just wondering ('cause I'm looking to buy an amp), what is the minimum amount of watts an amp should be to play comfortably with a set of drums and/or a live band

    It should read..How many Watts can i get before I get Kicked out of the band for playing to loud?<G>

    (in rehearsal anyway)? Is wattage even what I should be measuring by? I feel stupid asking considering I've been playing guitar for the last 17 years!! I've got my eye on this amp but it's 60 watts.

    What Amp? 60 Watts amps can get pretty loud if it is Fender type. If they are a Marshall type...it's still loud, but not overwhelming.

    All that said I now practice with a 3 Watt amp...and I am fine. Part of that when a drummer plays they either use brushes or some other method of quieting things down.
    post edited by Nate - 2005/10/14 23:14:38
    #20
    Thomas Campitelli
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/15 09:43:58 (permalink)
    I have to agree here. In general, tubes do have more satisfying sound than solid state. They are also considerably heavier (due to the power transformers in them), more expensive, require more maintenance, and are more fragile. I had a Carvin 50 Watt 1x12 tube amp that cost around $470 back in 1995 or so. I essentially could not turn the volume above 1.5 (out of 10) without it getting loud. By 2 or 3, I needed earplugs. After 3, it did not get markedly louder, but became more distorted, although to tell the truth, the power tube distortion on the amp did not sound great.

    Back to tubes vs. solid state. I used to record guitar with my amp's volume set at 2 to 2.5. I had to wear earplugs and it was inconvenient and loud. I was using Shure SM-57s to mic the cab and get a room sound. Large diaphragm condensors were not so cheap 10 years ago. The sound was good, but not phenomenal. A few years back, I discovered the Line 6 POD. Since then, my amp has been collecting dust. No, the POD does not sound like my tube amp. Most times, it sounds a lot better and I no longer need earplugs to record. It also "feels" a bit different than a real amp when you play it. What is my point? Firstly a POD has no speaker, so you cannot out-blast a drummer. Secondly, tubes may sound the best, but in recorded situations, unless you have a good room, a good mic setup, and know what you are doing, tubes will not save you.

    Try out the Tech 21 amp, also look at the Line 6 stuff. Try out some tube amps as well. Also try picking them up to see if you can lift them. You can get by with a pretty small amp for jamming. If you have access to a PA, save your back, save your time, consider bringing a POD to the gig instead.

    Thomas Campitelli
    http://www.crysknifeband.com
    #21
    DonnyAir
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/15 10:19:06 (permalink)
    Since you're already looking at a 60 watt combo amp I can highly recommend the Fender Hot Rod Deville. I've got the 4x10 cabinet but they make a 2x12 as well. It's tube driven and has got a great rock or blues sound.


    Agreed. I have the 4x10 and love it.
    #22
    jakejohan2
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    RE: Is my amp loud enough? 2005/10/15 19:21:31 (permalink)
    Mr. FonnyHair.

    Its very important to us that you are agreed. That is the ULTIMATE stamp of approval....ehhhhh?


    ORIGINAL: DonnyAir

    Since you're already looking at a 60 watt combo amp I can highly recommend the Fender Hot Rod Deville. I've got the 4x10 cabinet but they make a 2x12 as well. It's tube driven and has got a great rock or blues sound.


    Agreed. I have the 4x10 and love it.
    #23
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