Karl Engel
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Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
I've just spent a few hours doing radio production on a Nuendo system with a controller, side by side with Sonar on my laptop - and while I prefer Sonar in some instances (and am quicker with it due to familiarity) there are some major points I've found in Nuendo's favour... unless more well-versed Sonar users can tell me how to do these things:
Quickly see the length of an audio clip in seconds
Stretch or compress a clip to a specific time by just grabbing the edges & dragging it to size
Make the gridlines line up to seconds when the ruler is in HMSF
Being able to get to EQ adjustments with the hit of a single button seems a big advantage too, rather than regarding EQ as another plug-in that has to be enabled on the track first, although I understand it really IS just another plug-in. I don't see a way to use key bindings to bring up audio effects to make this quicker.
Hitting stop a second time to bring the cursor back to the original start position on a controller is a big advantage too, when dubbing stuff into another system. I know Sonar does this by using Ctrl+Space, but once you've just stopped (with the spacebar) it's too late, and you have to re-find the start point again. Unless you set the default differently. I assume Sonar doesn't behave any differently with a controller.
However on the Nuendo system I really missed Sonar's ghost images of overlapping audio.
I didn't have time to test, but can anyone tell me if Nuendo/Cubase let you drag CD audio straight in to a project? I never seem to see this as a feature request for Sonar, so I guess most people aren't using it for jobs that require this frequently.
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neonknight
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 05:28:34
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I think in Cubase you have to import the CD tracks in the pool, and then you can drag them onto the audio tracks
but seriously, you are comparing a 1500$ and a 600$ products, of course Nuendo will be more advanced in some features, especially for video production
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Gerry
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 05:55:09
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Apples for Apples and Pears for Pears. Sonar 5 is one hell of a lot of fruit for the price. Value for money I honestly do not think anything competes with Sonar but that is just my own opinion. I must admit I'm biased as after a few days with it I am over the moon and still haven't tapped into all its features and maybe never will. Nuendo has more options, well if it didn't then something would be wrong at the price. Perhaps the real issue is how important those features are to you and not which application is better or worse. Gerry
post edited by Gerry - 2005/10/14 06:04:42
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Gerry
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 06:17:46
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Yes I agree it is LOL but so is a Mercedes 500 SL.
post edited by Gerry - 2005/10/14 06:27:05
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GTBannah
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 08:14:59
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ORIGINAL: Karl Engel
Hitting stop a second time to bring the cursor back to the original start position on a controller is a big advantage too, when dubbing stuff into another system. F9 marks the "from" point, F10 marks the "thru" point. F7 and F8 take you to these points as often as you want, until you change them. Hope that helps. [
Derrkins Music is an exact, inexact, subjective, objective ArtScience. - Derrkins 2002 ----------------------------------------- GIGABYTE X58A-UD3R MoBo, i7 2.8Gig CPU, 12Gig RAM Win 7 Ultimate 64; DIGI 002
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sinc
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 08:20:46
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Being able to get to EQ adjustments with the hit of a single button seems a big advantage too, rather than regarding EQ as another plug-in that has to be enabled on the track first, although I understand it really IS just another plug-in. I don't see a way to use key bindings to bring up audio effects to make this quicker. How is it different from the per-track EQ feature of Sonar PE? I have a hard time imagining EQ to be quicker or easier, but am willing to be surprised...
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 08:55:03
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>>Quickly see the length of an audio clip in seconds
CTRL-ENTER on a selected clip takes you to its properties. Or use the navigator view to get a visual if the clip in relation to the project if thats what you want.
>>Being able to get to EQ adjustments with the hit of a single button seems a big advantage too,
Use per track Eq in SONAR.
>>I know Sonar does this by using Ctrl+Space, but once you've just stopped (with the
>>spacebar) it's too late, and you have to re-find the start point again.
SONAR allows you to rewind to the last play start time on stop. In Options | Global ensure that "On stop rewind to now marker" is checked.
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kp
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 09:02:57
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Alt-Enter, not Ctrl-Enter to get clip properties.
Or set the View Options for that kind of clip so that double-click opens properties (right click in Track View, View Options)
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urock
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 09:06:57
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ORIGINAL: ubuntu
Absolutely gorgeous!
v3.2 Mixer
I guess this just goes to show you can't please everyone with GUIs. I think it looks bad. Best, urock
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tarsier
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 09:56:52
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ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
>>Quickly see the length of an audio clip in seconds
CTRL-ENTER on a selected clip takes you to its properties. Or use the navigator view to get a visual if the clip in relation to the project if thats what you want.
But how about being able to see the length of a selection? Like when I alt-drag a selection I often need to know how long that selection is. ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
>>I know Sonar does this by using Ctrl+Space, but once you've just stopped (with the
>>spacebar) it's too late, and you have to re-find the start point again.
SONAR allows you to rewind to the last play start time on stop. In Options | Global ensure that "On stop rewind to now marker" is checked.
Sonar really needs some more transport and 'now time' options like pre- and post-roll. And not hiding the above feature in a dialog box--it's too hard to get to when you just want to switch to it for a couple of edits. That's really poor interaction design.
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eric_peterson
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 09:57:51
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I guess this just goes to show you can't please everyone with GUIs. I think it looks bad. Same here...
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dcastle
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/14 10:58:34
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Stretch or compress a clip to a specific time by just grabbing the edges & dragging it to size Agreed! Agreed! Agreed! For radio production work this is probably the most glarring missing feature. I have asked for it in every version of SONAR since 2.2XL, but haven't gotten it yet. Make sure you fill out a Feature Request --- maybe a storm of requests will carry more weight than mine every year. Right now, I adjust the length of my clips in Sound Forge and import them into SONAR, it's one additional step, but it's not too bad. This is the one-and-only feature that I miss from SAWplus32 --- but in that Bob Lentini GUI disaster it wasn't as intuitive as you describe, but then nothing was intuitive in any version of SAW. Regards, David
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VariousArtist
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/15 00:07:46
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quote:
Stretch or compress a clip to a specific time by just grabbing the edges & dragging it to size
Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!
For radio production work this is probably the most glarring missing feature. I have asked for it in every version of SONAR since 2.2XL, but haven't gotten it yet. Make sure you fill out a Feature Request --- maybe a storm of requests will carry more weight than mine every year.
Right now, I adjust the length of my clips in Sound Forge and import them into SONAR, it's one additional step, but it's not too bad. This is the one-and-only feature that I miss from SAWplus32 --- but in that Bob Lentini GUI disaster it wasn't as intuitive as you describe, but then nothing was intuitive in any version of SAW. I use the technique of "grabbing the edges & dragging it to size" in Sony Vegas Video and it is indeed a really nice feature to have. I would also like to see the mouse wheel control to zoom in and out that Vegas/Acid has, because once I got used to working that way I found it very hard to switch back to Sonar...
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Susan G
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/15 01:04:02
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Hi Noel-
SONAR allows you to rewind to the last play start time on stop. In Options | Global ensure that "On stop rewind to now marker" is checked.
But SONAR still lacks a true Pause button. This has bugged many of us for a long time now -- any chance it will be addressed soon? Thanks- -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
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pwal
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/15 04:46:44
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I guess this just goes to show you can't please everyone with GUIs. same here - i'm looking at that screenshot thinking "where IS everything??"  p
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daverich
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/15 05:21:28
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ORIGINAL: VariousArtist
quote:
Stretch or compress a clip to a specific time by just grabbing the edges & dragging it to size
Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!
For radio production work this is probably the most glarring missing feature. I have asked for it in every version of SONAR since 2.2XL, but haven't gotten it yet. Make sure you fill out a Feature Request --- maybe a storm of requests will carry more weight than mine every year.
Right now, I adjust the length of my clips in Sound Forge and import them into SONAR, it's one additional step, but it's not too bad. This is the one-and-only feature that I miss from SAWplus32 --- but in that Bob Lentini GUI disaster it wasn't as intuitive as you describe, but then nothing was intuitive in any version of SAW.
I use the technique of "grabbing the edges & dragging it to size" in Sony Vegas Video and it is indeed a really nice feature to have. I would also like to see the mouse wheel control to zoom in and out that Vegas/Acid has, because once I got used to working that way I found it very hard to switch back to Sonar...
I would've thought the V-Vocal time-stretch would be much more useful. At least then you can stretch/pull any part of the wave - not just the ends which I assume is what the time-warp thingy does in nuendo. Maybe cakewalk should've embedded V-Vocal a bit more tightly into the gui so people would realise how powerful it is ;) Kind regards Dave Rich
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tombuur
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/15 06:36:39
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Just got S5 this week, and must admit I am a bit disappointed. Perhaps I will change my mind after getting to know it better, but this is my first impression. And now you mention it, the lacking time stretch/transpose features and time warp for adjustment of things like bass is what I miss the most comparing to Cubase SX3. Some can be done in V-vocal, but not as elegantly. I also use my DAW for rehearsing covers I play with a band. Looping is great here. But in SX3 I can slow down, and even transpose the whole song somewhat. So in a few minutes I will go down and start up SX3 for rehearsing for tomorrow. Otherwise I prefer Sonar. It is easier to use, and I don't think it is only a matter of familiarity. Sonar has found a more intuitive way of doing things, like clicking on the name of a plug-in, not on a button somewhere. Over at Cubase Forum they tell me this is ridiculous. Still, the first things that catches your eye is the name of the plug-in ... so why not reach for that? BTW SX3 is largely similar to Nuendo when it comes to audio function, and the price compares to Sonar.
post edited by tombuur - 2005/10/15 06:45:32
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vicsant
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RE: Twinge of disillusionment with Sonar
2005/10/15 07:13:21
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But how about being able to see the length of a selection? Like when I alt-drag a selection I often need to know how long that selection is. Yes! Sonar needs this feature!
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