Sorting Out Synths - Dim, z3ta, Rapture...

Please don't yell at me. I did my searches, but remain perplexed.

I've just started scratching the surface of Dim Pro. Wonderful. Aside from Pentagon that came with SONAR 5, I now see a special discount on z3ta valid til Jan 30. Pressure's on. And Rapture is on the horizon.

I'm presuming that all synths have their strengths and weaknesses, but where's the overlap and redundancy? Anyone care to offer advice on perceived differences?

I'm presuming that all synths have their strengths and weaknesses, but where's the overlap and redundancy?

There will be some overlap between Dimension & Rapture but overall they'll make a stellar pair. Dimension does some wavetable synthesis but Rapture looks set to go way further than Dimension can. That said, Dimension will remain king for sample playback. Considering they both load sfz files, much of their content will be interchangeable.

If I were you, I'd get Rapture before Z3ta+ and then see if you're still hungry for more after that!Rapture will be a fun ride when everyone lays hands on it for the first time… don't wanna miss that particular wave of enthusiasm.

I own z3ta+ and Dimension (not Pro), and they are quite different. Dimension is more like a rompler - I don't mean it in a bad sense, but it has the typical layered architecture where each layer has its own multisampled oscillator going through a filter and some fx. Sure, there are envelopes and LFO's for most common stuff (pitch, cutoff, reso, panning, and amplitude), and for most sounds that is enough.

However, z3ta+ has a complex modulation matrix that lets you do crazier stuff, like FM, AM, RM, osc sync, filter FM, waveshaping, modulation of various parameters with the same source but different depths/curves, two filters in serial/parallel configuration.

Both have decent effects but Dimension has effects per layer (element), and z3ta+ lets you modulate effect parameters.

In short, I'd say there's not much overlap between z3ta+ and Dimension, although there's a good range of sounds you could produce with any of them.

Rapture seems like a "middle point" between DP and z3ta+. It loses the huge DP soundset but introduces two more layers (as z3ta+'s six oscillators), ring modulation, and dual filters. And it has something neither DP or z3ta+ have: step sequencers. Unfortunately, it leaves behind some cool modulation possibilities found in z3ta+ (I can understand that most people wouldn't use them, anyway).

IMO, having Pentagon, z3ta+, DP and Rapture could be overkill. Since you already have Pentagon and DP, you have to think what are you looking for in a new synth: if you like to do crazy sounds with near-modular routings, you should consider z3ta+ (there's a demo version available at www.rgcaudio.com); if you know your way around DP and would like ringmod, dual filters, and step sequencers, then Rapture might be it.

And of course, there's a myriad of other synths you could try, too. It all depends on what you're looking for.

I think soon, what this will deliver, will be better explained. The list of features does not have as much meaning as what it will sound like. What can you do with it? Yes I expect some overlap with it. And this has been addressed to some degree. And yet I still get that sneaking feeling Rene has put something in the mix here that's hiding in the feature set under the guise of geek speak that will translate into something so totally different sound wise. So speculation is expected. And we all are on the edge of our seats.

I'm sorry but to me a "wavetable" synth is not only one whose waveforms are read from a table (like every rompler), but one where one some realtime control over which table is being read, so one note can sweep through different waves. It doesn't look like Rapture (or sfz) can do that (it would be great if they did). Sure, you can use the envelopes to crossfade the six layers/elements, but that's quite cumbersome and not really what my concept of a wavetable synth should do.

I'm sure Rapture will make amazing sounds and it also has great specs but I was a bit deceived because when I saw "wavetable" and "step sequencers" I instantly thought it could be kind of like a Waldorf XT or Korg Wavestation, and it doesn't seem like it. However, it looks like a great synth, and to be honest, it's more *my* kind of synth than Dimension (ie.- more a "programmers" synth than a "presets" synth), but I already have too many synths and Rapture would mostly overlap with them.

Now I'm really looking forward to see what libraries come out for Dimension Pro. IMO, this is a key sales point for DP. If Cakewalk manages to convince more developers to use the sfz format, then DP will finally compete against Kontakt, Gigasampler, etc.

ORIGINAL: MIDIMONSTER

ORIGINAL: fac
It doesn't look like Rapture (or sfz) can do that (it would be great if they did). Sure, you can use the envelopes to crossfade the six layers/elements, but that's quite cumbersome and not really what my concept of a wavetable synth should do.

I believe that sfz opcodes will allow for almost unlimited control of wavetables within Rapture.

- Unlimited X-fades on CC values...
- Input cntrls such as changing wavetables on velcity, pitch range, randomness, polyphony...
- lfo control via sfz opcodes
- RING MOD!

I could go on and on really... I though you enjoyed programming patches in synths?

Yeah, that's also my point. I thought Rapture would make more use of these features. The sfz format is the coolest thing to happen sampler-wise in a long time, but as long as this stuff is not implemented with an interface, it would be very tedious to program some stuff. If you didn't like something you have to go back to the notepad (or whatever editor you're using), change some opcodes or parameters, go back to Dimension Pro or Rapture, reload the sfz, and try again.

I'm thinking that I should start making some sfz-generating programs. One could do sfz drumkits (just select a bunch of samples and the prog generates the sfz file), other could do this wavetable-crossfading thing (again, select a bunch of wavetables and one controller will be dedicated for crossfading).

Rapture video on SonicState:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2681

I really can't wait until Cakewalk updates it's website to include Rapture, and maybe give us some better demonstrations of it's sounds.

ORIGINAL: JohnrC

From what you know, can this question be answered: is it possible to accomplish with Rapture the same that can be done with z3ta?

Not all of it, but a probably a lot. Some modulation routings in z3ta+ seem imposible to accomplish in DimPro or Rapture (ie.- oscillator output as modulation source, fx parameter modulation). I have to check out the sfz format description carefully, though.

Rene, thanks for dropping by. Are there any plans to port z3ta+ to XP64 in the future (say a year or two) ?

I guess that even if there wasn't, Sonar 5 users could still use the z3ta+ VST through the bridge, right?