M-audio converters

ORIGINAL: Buckethead

Hey does anybody have an M-audio Delta 10/10. I was thinking about getting one, but was told the converters were horrible. If anbody has any experience with these interfaces could they please shed a little light... can digidesign be trusted anymore... the mbox's are junk... is it true that they make other products of a much lower quality now just to make you buy the big rigs...???

I don't think the Delta converters are horrible at all. However if converter quality is what you are after Lynx is as good as it gets in a sound card.

ORIGINAL: Buckethead

Hey does anybody have an M-audio Delta 10/10. I was thinking about getting one, but was told the converters were horrible. If anbody has any experience with these interfaces could they please shed a little light... can digidesign be trusted anymore... the mbox's are junk... is it true that they make other products of a much lower quality now just to make you buy the big rigs...???

M-Audio Delta 1010

DSP Via Envy24

A/D Converters: AKM AK5383, 110dB 96kHz 24-Bit Enhanced Dual Bit ADC
Enhanced Dual Bit ADC
Sampling Rate: 1kHz to 108kHz
Full Differential Inputs
Input Impedance: 10k(omega) minimum.
S/(N+D): 103dB
DR: 110dB
S/N: 110dB
High Performance Linear Phase Digital Anti-Alias filter
- • Passband: 0 to 21.768kHz (@fs=48kHz)
- • Ripple: 0.001dB
- • Stopband: 110dB
Digital HPF & Offset Calibration for Offset Cancel

D/A Converters: AKM AK4393, 120dB 96kHz 24-Bit Advanced Multi-Bit DAC
High Performance Stereo DAC
128x Oversampling
Sampling Rate from 30kHz to 108kHz
24-bit 8 times Digital Filter Ripple: ±s 0.005dB, Attenuation: 75dB
High Tolerance to Clock Jitter
Low Distortion Differential Output
Digital de-emphasis for 32, 44.1, 48kHz Sampling
Soft Mute
I/F Format: MSB justified, LSB justified, I2S
THD + N: -100dB
Dynamic Range: 120dB
Total Harmonic Distortion: <0.001% (A-D), <0.0015% (D-A).
Frequency Response: 22Hz to 22kHz, +0.3/-0.2dB.
Supported Bit Depths: 8, 16, and 24.
Internal Mixing Path: 36-bit.


Junski

I was thinking about getting one, but was told the converters were horrible.

Probably by some gear peddler.
I refuse to believe that anyone (including so called "golden ears") would be able to pick out a Delta 1010 in a properly run shootout with converters costing ten times as much (or a hundred for that matter). Any failings the Delta might have are so far below normal signal levels that for all practical purposes, they just don't exist.
Most of the folks that would lead you to believe differently are either trying to sell you something, or justifying the fact that they fell for the "esoteric converter" crap themselves... The only real reason to upgrade from a Delta 1010 is if you own a high profile studio that requires all gear names must "impress the client".
You won't hear any real shootouts because the major players in ADC/DAC don't want you to know the truth. That truth is: $300 to $500 will buy you reproduction better than your ears can hear.
The specs that were cited above basically tell the story. Virtually non existent are: noise, distortion, crosstalk, and jitter. While the unit faithfully reproduces 22Hz to 22Khz with less than .3db deviation. I think I'll eq out .3db deviation, and pocket the thousands of dollars to be wasted on the esoteric converters.

Right now, I am waiting for my second 1010 to arrive in the mail.

I am little miffed at my vendor becasue although they noted it as "in-stock," they had to have it sent directly from m-audio. Or, rather, it will be shipped as soon as they have more pci cards (so says the sales guy, and who knows about them ;) ).

And the reason I bought the second: my first is getting unrelible.

Last summer, the output channels all died. But they repaired it and I only had to pay for shipping it there; it was an older model and I think it had some bad caps in the supply.

Two weeks ago, three of the channels died in the middle of a session, and although they have since started working again, they stop working intermittently. So they've given me an RMA, and now I'm waiting for my second unit to arrive so I can send the first back to be fixed.

I will say that I really like the card and think that between the two devices I can get 16- channels of good sounding ADDA; I don't have a great sounding room, and I think that in my situation these converters are far from the weakest link in my signal chain. And I think the issue is related to capacitors in a particular early production of the box, so I'm not worried about the new unit.

ORIGINAL: Buckethead

do they work well with sonar? or do you have to buy pro-tools?

I have, in the past, used them with SF/Sony Vegas and Fruityloops/studio; recently I have been trying to move my workflow to sonar, but S is missing some editing functionality.

But the drivers are really good and I have never had any problems.

I owned a Delta 1010 for 5 years before I downsized my studio. It's a very good and reliable card. Frankly, I think its still the best card M-Audio makes. (If you look at the specs list on M-Audio's website for their various products, I believe it still has the highest combination A/D and D/A specs of any of their units).

I've tried out more modern sound cards recently as I've retooled my studio - the Emu 1212m, Emu 1820m, Lexicon Omega, Presonus Firebox, and Line6 Toneport UX2. The only ones to my ears that sounded better from a converter point of view was the Emus ( of course, the Emu drivers drove me crazy).

Best,

urock

ORIGINAL: Nate

Buying anything that affects sound without personally listening to it first is a recipe for disaster.

Do you have any relationships with Dealers or the like where you could possibly rent or test run a Delta for a week?

You make a good point, but I don't always think it is so bad to select equipment without using it first, and certainly not something that will necessarily lead to disaster.

For instance, I don't have any real music dealers where I lived, so when I bought a new crash cymbal, I just looked aropund at what other people liked and bought a zil. A custom: it is basically a cymbal that everyone likes and agree sounds like a crash cymbal. I gig with it about once a week, and I'm not too picky; basically, it sounds pretty good, I got a good deal for it online. But I would be happy as long as I got something that basically soundeds like a crash cymbal; I need the functionality, not the quality, so I simply chose something that other professional types agreed was nice and stopped worrying.

I also bought my deltas this way: they are simply good equipment that no one complains about (though there are some very nice things that you could complain about them ;) )


Frankly I think that, looking at the target user group for the 1010, they are probably not going to be the weak link in the system. Like most good equipment at that range, the functionality is the main selling point with quality being a secondary consideration.