E-MU 1616 or M Audio FW 410

For $100 more you should consider the "m" version (E-Mu 1616m) which has higher-grade A-D-A converters. The mic pre's are pretty sweet, too. I've been using the 1616m since it came out last July and couldn't be happier. For that price point you get an awful lot...

PS: It snagged a "10 on a scale of 10" rating from Computer Music magazine. Sound-on-Sound liked it quite a lot, also.

I absolutely love my M-Audio Delta 1010, and as far as I know ALL M-Audio products deliver te same very high quality audio.
I would personally use a Firewire interface over a PCI simply because they aren't as fragile and you don't have wires running out of te side of the laptop.

Wow, I’ve never ever heard anyone complaint about M-Audio products as being distorted, though I’ve never used any of their external devices.
What I find amusing is I have came over from MOTU to M-Audio.
I have nothing bad to say about MOTU in the least, I had actually sold the interface bundled with a Mac/ Pro Tools setup, which I loved.
I just came to love the Windows PC better since Sonar 3, and ever since it as been good riddance to the Mac.

I’ve always known M-Audio to be reasonably priced high quality components. Emphasis on “reasonable” because they only charge you what you pay for.
Personally I have found even their cheapest products seemed to retain a high quality sound and have very good driver support. The more you spend, the more feature rich they become, and they are right on par with EMU and RME performance wise.
I have never been impressed with EMU’s built in DSP effects and doubt any Sonar Producer users will find any use for them.
However that is a matter of preference of course, others I know like EMU’s DSP. (I have also been spoiled by the Waves Diamond bundle).
My point is if you don’t really like or won’t use the EMU DSP, there is no sense in paying an extra $100 for it because they do not give you a choice.

Now the RME Fireface 800 is a different story for an extremely useful, feature rich external audio interface.
Probably the most serious contender out there for consideration. Though the base price is a tad steep, for what you get dollar for dollar, pound for pound, it is very inexpensive.

That would be difficult to say in comparison, though I can safely say M-Audio has a very wide and rock solid support over a long list of products and software.
I have never had any problems or conflicts with the Delta 1010 hooked up and works great right out of the box after install with Sonar, Sony’s Sound Forge, ACID, Vegas, Pinnacle Liquid, and will effortlessly record 8 audio tracks at once with Sonar 4 Producer (5.2 ms latency ASIO drivers), nor with products from their parent company MIDIMAN 8x8 interface.
Of course that isn’t being done on a laptop, but you should safely get 4 audio tracks inputted to your laptop.

My apologies, I meant to type PCM.. These cards are inherently fragile by nature and usually located on the side of the laptop which leaves wires running from them right in harms way.

Another point I’d like to make is Creative Labs advertising hype consistently gives the illusion that their products will turn your computer into some amazing all powerful music work station by boasting and bundling their products with a massive array of “lite” software versions, week limited hardware accelerated FX plug ins are all designed to encourage you to go and purchase the real thing.
In truth, “most” and all “off the self” laptops are not even capable of handling 16 audio I/O’s, and it would take a pretty stout, tweaked, and beefy multimedia workstation desktop to pull that off.
I don’t mean to be offensive, but EMU cannot turn a laptop into a desktop performer.

I thought that statement made perfect sense. Just because the EMU is capable of inputting and out putting 16 cannels of audio, does NOT mean that your computer can.
It's funny how they don't mention that...
I am also referring to the quality of the range of M-Audio's support for audio applications and hardware gear and not reffering to their support team. I have honestly never had to contact them about anything.
All my experiences installing interface peripherals and drivers went seamlessly in both M-Audio and MIDIMAN devices, and everything does what it is supposed to do perfectly right out of jump street.

Well this is turning into a matter of preference and opinion, and I for one and many remain more than happy using M-Audio Delta 1010 with Event Electronics TR8 monitor near field monitor system and get excellent uncolored professional grade sound quality, and not only do I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment that M-Audio can’t compare to any other audio interfaces, so does Electronic Musician and Computer Music Magazines. Both had rated M-Audio as “Unrivaled” sound quality.
I had chosen the Delta 1010 after reading an excellent review of them in EM and months of practical hand on research.
The Delta 1010’s M Powered drivers and clock source run far superior to that of the EMU (PCI card) to the tune of 4 ms lower latency, and uses ¼ the amount of wattage which is a lot less pressure on the computer’s power supply just to run the cards DSP, none of which I found are as good or even comes close to the FX that come standard with Sonar Producer, Waves, or Sony Sound Forge.
I had perceived the quality of EMU DSP effects as toy versions of Universal Audio’s UAD-1.
As I had mentioned earlier in this thread, I had replaced a MOTU interface I had to very reluctantly given up when I sold My Mac workstation, and replaced it with the Delta 1010, and not only was I pleased with the parity of performance, I had found the Delta 1010 sounding on par with the RME, neither required and EQ adjustments to flatten the room. That indicates to me either colored the sound.
That was NOT the case when I installed the EMU. There were clear indications of sound coloration.
I’m not saying that it sounded bad by any means, it sounded DIFFERENT and I was not going to the task of spectrum analyzing to rearrange sound dampening for my room to support a card that comes stocked to the gills with toy DSP effects and starter kit software. Once again, Creative Labs let me down trying to fit 20 pounds of “stuff” into a 2 pound bag in another attempt at a “one size fits all” product, only to improve on it next year.
M-Audio as well as RME have a history of trying to perfect their products before releasing them, and as a result both have a history of very few driver updates
When I master a CD, I author it to play and sound as good as I can get it on ANY CD player without the end user having to make any EQ or volume adjustments.
The Delta 1010 enables me to send out the uncolored signal to 4 different reference monitoring sources directly from Sony CD Architect or controlled from any other audio app for that matter.
I use the Delta 1010LT to be exact, having a Tascam mixing desk I don’t need the breakout box as much as the rack space, and saved considerable money by not having to purchase something I won’t use or need.
This is also why I didn’t choose the most “EXCELLENT” RME, which I personally rate the absolute best in “all in one” hardware bundles for usefulness and reliability.
Already having a full blown fully functioning project studio, I don’t need the extra built in mike preamps and bells and whistles, all of which are the highest quality and ultimately useful tools.


No game ports, cheapo virtual guitar plug ins, reverbs, choruses, silly little synths, etc.
RME and M-Audio are specifically designed for professional Audio/Midi production and recording on the Windows PC, and that’s all folks, they don’t even try to make anything else.
I tend to relate MOTU and Digidesign to be leaning towards Mac proprietary interfaces.

For my laptop for remote live recording I use a Tascam USB interface and strictly record at 16/44.1.
24 bit uses up much more computer resources and way too much hard space way too fast for me, and unless you have top of the line state of the art equipment and environment, it’s nothing but pure overkill.

All that being said…. It’s all a matter of preference.

Anyone can make a great sounding 24/96 recording, but can you make them sound great at 48 k/bs?
Please let me know what you think. http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=528434&t=7916 Sonar, Sound Forge, and M-Audio in action.
I believe this sound very close to the CD version in accuracy, and it is extremely dial up friendly.

Steev,

I use my MOTU Traveler running Sonar 5PE and winXP with no problem. As stated in my earlier post, I had the M-Audio Firewire 410 and still do , to use as a back-up. 1st, the 410 advertizes that it has 4 inputs. Problem is, you can only use 2 inputs at once (XLR type). The other 2 inputs are line-level type and cannot be accessed at the same time. There is a push-button to switch between the two. It doesn't have balanced line outs to run those nice Event PR 8's either. When I stated that the 410 sounded "muddy", I didn't mean distorted, just not 'clear" enough. I am partners with a buddy of mine in another studio and am using (2) Delta 1010's. However, I'll stand by my statement that the MOTU Traveler blows away the 410 by far. Better pre's, 4 XLR's and 8 line inputs, seperate phantom power for each pre ( the 410 has one button for phantom and it applies it to all at the same time.) It just performs and sounds better ( not colored), at least on my system. I was trying to inform LGREEN that his purchase should be an informed one and such that the Interface he buys, he can grow with. ( HE was looking for something that had 4 inputs) I'm not downing M-Audio, however, there are much better units out there. Definitley the RME 800!! And yes, my recordings sound great at 48k. That's all I use. MOTU isn't just for Mac's. Read the reviews on the Traveler in the same mags you just quoted! Again, if you're happy with what you have, Kudos to ya. I'm not selling anything to anyone, just stating my opinion. We'll all probably be looking for newer gear a year or 2 from now anyways! Somebody is always making something better down the road. Happy Recording!!

Larry,

I was referring to a choice comparison between the E-MU 1616m and M-Audio 410.
Again I’d like to point out that I have no practical user experience with either unit, but I do have with other products from both manufacturers, mostly PCI cards.
Through the years I have grown to not trust the marketing hype of Creative Labs for their Audigy and E-MU lines, and known them to be very problematic, and Igreen has stated that he isn’t very computer savy.
I had just learned that the 1616m only has 6 audio inputs, not 16, so apparently the claim of 16 I/O’s is nothing more than hype.
I was also unaware of the fact that the 410 could only record two tracks at once, that’s reason enough for me not to consider purchasing it.
I am truly surprised to find that the 410 doesn’t meet your standards for sound quality, though it is an external Firewire device, and you are comparing it to MOTU.
That is indeed a horse of a different color.
I most certainly would not dispute MOTU as being some of the finest and reliable audio interfaces made, and I will definitely check out the MOTU Traveler when replacing my old dinosaur Tascam for laptop live/remote recording.
Though that is a particularly hard act to follow as it is a very good DAW controller as well as retaining a great clear uncolored sound capture at 16/44.1, that has kept Tascam an industry leader since the early 70’s, I find it extremely capable, reliable and very portable, more than adequate for remote recording.

J Boy,
Tascam has excellent AD/DA converters, which is infinitely most vital than recording at ultra high bit rate resolution and Firewire.
Yes, even being a USB 1.1 device which has never been any problem what so ever, it provides zero latency monitoring, and will record and function at 16/48 I have never experienced any real benefit from doing so, and there is a chance it might create a bit more issues dithering back down 16/44.1.

I am not one to try and keep up with every new technology advancement that comes along just to have the latest and greatest.
I had built my computer workstation over 3 years ago based on the AMD Athlon XP-2600+ (2.1 G/hz) running Windows 2000 Pro. Yes it’s a dinosaur, but that actually happened 6 months after I built it, but I used the best of everything I could find and afford at the time, and it still rock solid performer and I will continue to use it as my main studio whip until I’m finished building my 64 bit machine.
Unfortunely, I’m still waiting on a reliable 64 bit OS.
The finest and best equipment and software there is isn’t going to help anyone if they can’t play or produce music.

I am a firm believer that most popular rock music does not have the dynamic range to require or even meet the 16/44.1 resolution standard, and absolutely positive capturing live performances in clubs certainly doesn’t.
Not unless you feel the need to capture all the background noises with pristine clarity.
Let us not forget that digital distortion occurs at the lower sound pressure levels.

Let us not forget that 16/44.1 is still the industry standard for CD media, it does in fact sound great and still far exceeds the dynamic spec limitations of all but the finest audiophile stereo equipment, and as far as I’m concerned far exceeds the dynamic qualities of any live recording situations I have ever been in, where there is such limited control over the environment, and equipment being used for sound reinforcement.

I had just learned that the 1616m only has 6 audio inputs, not 16, so apparently the claim of 16 I/O’s is nothing more than hype.

Umm...
I have a 1616M, which DOES have 16 ins and outs (6 analog, 2 s/pdif, 8 ADAT), all of which can be used at the same time. This seems a pretty common way to measure your ins/outs these days - my MOTU 828 measures it this way... my Firebox measures it similarly, without the ADAT...

It's fascinating that track count methods for the EMU listed as a negative, or hype, in comparison to the M-Audio card, particularly since I specifically avoided the M-Audio 4x10 because they are, IMO, lying...

They (M-Audio) count total IO as any connection on the card, regardless of whether you can use it alongside the rest or not. Using that methodology, the 1616M has an extra 2 inputs (RCA phono) and 6 extra outputs (these little surround sound mini-plugs on the back - that would be 1822M, which certainly sounds better, but isn't particularly honest.

Personally, I also don't have any coloration to my 1616M recordings. Quite the contrary. It sounds more clear/flat/crisp/open than either the MOTU 828 or the Presonus Firebox, both of which I still use daily. I was shocked at its clarity in comparison.

Lastly...

In truth, “most” and all “off the self” laptops are not even capable of handling 16 audio I/O’s

I respectfully disagree...

This totally depends on the off the shelf laptop, and specifically the amount of RAM and hard drive configuration (if audio recording and playback is the issue).

I get 16x16 on my Pentium M 1.86GHz, Dell off-the-shelf, 1.25GB RAM, 7200 with external 5400 rpm hard drive, EMU 1616M driven unit. It nearly equals my P4 2.8GHz, custom-built, 2GB RAM, multi-harddrive (10000 rpm/7200rpm), MOTU 828 driven desktop. Laptops aren't what they used to be.

lgreen,
Go to a store with a good return/swap policy, strike up an agreement with them as to how you can test each and choose between them (as I did with my equipment dealer, don't open the software...), and give them a try.
Even a great interface can be junk on a different setup. See what works for you.

However, I personally side for the EMU, as I've had a very good experience with mine, and some of the lite software is actually alright (I got an extra copy of Sonar now, which I put on a second machine, and Proteus X LE has a few good sounds). Definitely don't buy for the software bundle alone, however... it IS all LE, after all.

When I compared the Audiophile 2496, 192 and E-MU 1212m, everyone who heard them said the same thing: the M-Audio cards were muddier with several different sets of monitors. Even the RMAA results were better for the E-MU.

ORIGINAL: Steev

Dell is installing 7200 RPM hard drives in “off the shelf” laptops now, huh?

Usually not. And most "off the shelf" desktops don't come with 2 GB of RAM.

Thanks for all the input.

Maybe I can rephrase my question. As a non-technical musician who would like to record some acoustic music onto a laptop to share mostly with other musicians, what would you all (I’m from the south) suggest I buy to go between my microphone/mixer and laptop? I mostly will only need 2 channels; although more would be nice.

Should I maybe consider a stereo pre-amplifier with a digital output? Maybe even two pieces – a sound card and a pre?

Should I just use the i-mic and the built-in sound card and work on my room and microphone placement?

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. It has been enlightening, even if some of its over my head.

Also, I’m impressed with the quality and respectful tone of this board.