ReMOTE SL

Have posted this on the P5 forum but thought someone here might also have some info...

Anyone able to give feedback on running the Novation Remote SL with P5 and/or DimPro yet?

I'm giving it consideration to get more out of DimPro & my other softsynths but it's a lot of $$$ for a 2 Oct controller.

I know there are cheaper alternatives but Novation seem to have a good reputation.

Thanks for the comment Mike. That will be another thumbs up for Novation then?

The P5 thread has answered what I need to know other than how to pay for it!

Click http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=718610 if you want to see what was said.

I have a Novation ReMOTE 61 (not SL) and it comes with a great patch/template editor that makes it a doddle to create your own customised templates to suit each virtual instrument. Apart from S4PE, the only Cake instrument I have is z3ta+ (which I bought before Rene ate his Cake [bad joke ]) but I would say that provided you get a keyboard that is easy to program and an instrument that provides simpe midi learn, they're all pretty much the same.

As for playing, I've never really agreed with this 'semi-weighted' nonsense. I tried loads of keyboards and they all feel cr@p to play after a hammer-weighted keyboard. I'm used to both now and all I would say is that fast trills etc are slightly easier on a so-called semi-weighted 'board.

Anyone here have any luck with P5's transport midi functions and NOVATION controllers, P5 doesn't seem to accept MMC commands, I have tried others but they just don't seem to be getting through to P5. Any strategies would be appreciated. Also my Editor tells me i need to update the KB's OS, it doesn't seem to be on the web site...

P5 doesn't seem to accept MMC commands

I'm a little surprised at that ('cause, you know, I'm in the SL club now too fellas!) but, as Tom said, there are ways around it.

summary of what are RPNs & NRPNs. I don't mean a detailed breakdown, it's just that I understand CC's but I'm not sure where these PN's fit into the control options.

I see from that other thread that you've landed on the Borg pages. Really clear explanations of MIDI stuff. A little outdated in parts, and a few misinterpretations, but the lion's share is very applicable and handy info.. So you've read the RPN & NRPN tutorial there. And (like me), you went, "Huh? Too much work."

I've stayed away from RPNs. There's only like 5 of them defined, and nobody implements them, but I thought it'd be safer to stay away from that. Still, you'd be safe with using just about any of the 16,384 sources. I'd stay away from the bottom end.

But you've got the same amount of controllers at your disposal with Non-Registered Parameter Numbers. When are you ever going to use 16,000+ controls up? Still, there's the math. CC#s are two-part messages: the controller number, followed by the value. xRPN's come in three parts. The MSB [CC# 99] of the controller, the LSB [CC#98: both numbers combine to a single decimal number in practice], and then the value. (I think the LSB is transmitted first).

And the value is sent over CC#6 [Data Entry]. Let's not even get into the Fine value [CC#38], and the Data Increment/Decrement [96, 97]. The fact is that you don't need to know this stuff to make it work. There's no way to explain xRPN's without getting technical, but they use two MIDI CC#s (each) to get you a lot of extra locations, and use 1 or 2 more CC#s to attach a value to the tail end of that. MIDI simply ran out of room (with 128 CC#s), and concocted a way to get around that.

OK, in your application, you're probably just going to see this as a single decimal number, from 0-16,383. That's what MIDI Learn is for: cut down on the hassle. In a Novation, you have to set the MSB and LSB individually. The slider or control itself becomes the 'Data Entry' value. So, let's make life easy:

In the Edit mode, select the Control Type as NRPN. Let the LSBank number become your "CC#". Think 128 different sources here. Keep your MSBank Num at 0. Think of this like a "bank" of NRPNs. Change the bank, and you get 128 more NRPNs to play with. Like making it an MSBank Num of 1.

On the MIDI learn side, when your transmit an MSB/LSB combo of 0/23 (automatically in the Novation by moving the "Data" slider), you're going to get a decimal 23 in the Learn sensing window. Had it been an MSB of 1 instead, you'd see 151 (128 slots, plus another 23). And on up the ladder. This should stay active (like a "running status" for the current NRPN) until the destination synth or app encounters another unique NRPN.

In practice, I'm just starting to fill up my first NRPN "bank" now, in addition to a "scheme" for all the original CC#s. (OK, I lied. So I'm spilling over the first bank a little). Some synths use the lowest NRPN numbers for their own internal use. I think that GrooveWhatever is one of them. If you're worried about that, or have problems with a synth, it might be prudent to jump to the next (MSB=1 [Dec.]) bank.

Sheesh! Look at this mess. I tried to write up something clear & simple. I'm away from the home front right now, but I'll try to get back to clarify anything that I can (memory-permitting) from this rat's-nest of tangled information.

avoid pre-programed conflicts with CC0 -127 or purely due to the complexity and range of your controllers?

A little of both, Sheep; probably more on the flexible controller end. Not that the controllers themselves are all that complex, but there's a lot of them. And (we've talked about this) I like to be able to switch it from one giant virtual controller to several "pods", or any combination of that.

You start weeding out the defined MIDI CC#s, and those that you shouldn't commandeer, and the double-precision ones, and you still end up with a lot for your own use. But think of a lot of 2-octave controllers, and all those knobs/sliders/buttons/etc. on each. Throw in some external FX and control surfaces. You run out real quick.

I am guessing that the majority of synths would rely on channel selection and a maximum of 127 parameters for control

That's the way to go. But (once again), I want the controllers to transmit together (on one MIDI channel), or separately on individual channels. At the flick of a switch. . The Ion transmits on four. MIDI Guitar grabs 6 more. You try to leave drums for ch. 10, and channel 1 open for legacy synths. The mixers and FX want a channel for scene changes. I'm already fresh out. I've got an old hardware MIDI router to help ease the load (multiple Ports of MIDI channels).

OK, so 7 out of 10 times, it's a couple of controllers, the mixer, and some synths. But I can layer these in, and come back later without any concern that the next layer will conflict with any of the previous ones. And I've got enough room for "guests" without re-patching or unplugging everything. It took a long time to get to this point. I realize that this may be just slightly outside of the norm.

Oops, the transport buttons don't transmit NRPN's perhaps the other controllers do

The SL software editor I downloaded and installed this week, (I haven't got my SL yet), allows allocation of a wide range of controls including NRPNs to the transport buttons.

Yep NRPN's available through the editor for the transport keys but not through the KB edit function. Probably that illusive OS I' trying to track down. Have had some limited functionality using NRPN's for the Transport keys last night, we'll see what the weekend holds.

Novation owners rate their free Bass Station

The early adoptors didn't get one. And the offer for the free upgrade was restricted to "local" customers only. I filled out the form anyway.
I think that I tipped them off that I was in the US, though: I used "swamp" instead of "bog" in the return address. Or maybe I used an "Z" instead of an "S" somewhere.

You caved on the SL, Trevor. Didn't you ...

Wise, an extra Octave to the 25 would be nice. I have loaded Bass Station and tried a few sounds, might be handy to use, but other VST sounds I have sound just as good.

I have read that apparently Cakewalk have an SL from Novation, perhaps they could shed some light/advice on the possibilities with P5/Sonar and the new Novation controller soon.

New OS update has finally been put on the Novation web site, at time of writing this post the link to the OS file is not working

http://www.novationmusic.com/downloads.asp?productid=30&type=1