Craig Anderton Reviewing Rapture on Harmony Central

Hello All,

I thought you may be interested to know that Craig Anderton is doing one of his pro reviews on Rapture at Harmony Central:

Harmony Central Pro Review: Rapture

For those of you unaware of the Pro Reviews, these are interactive reviews where you can post and ask questions while Craig is working on it. So if there's anything you want to know about Rapture, you should click the link, read the review and start asking questions.

Awesome, I didn't know about this...Sonar 5 reviewed...makes my day! Thanks Carl!

JazzSinger the S5 interactive Pro Review is here...

Sonar 5 Producer Pro Review

Very detailed and a very unique way to review a product. Have a look.

Well I must say this is turning into an interesting review. I've posted a bunch of MP3 files, unfortunately they're constrained time-wise by what the BBS software can handle, but they're still pretty useful. The Arturia Minimoog/Rapture filter comparison was pretty interesting.

There are new updates and sounds for this review. Check it out...

What else is REALLY different? Is one a superset of the other? Can Rapture play all DimPro sounds? If not, why not? THAT is where the differences are that would interest me. Is Rapture basically DimPro with more features? If so, what features? Or is it different in other ways? And if so, in what ways?

I've got to come up with a good metaphor for this. It comes up too often to let pass. I always use a comparison to Adobe Creative Suite: completely distinct apps, some overlap in features, and an integrated architecture with a consistent GUI. You can do layers (for example) in both After Effects and Photoshop, but the applications are geared for unique results. Of course, if you don't do computer graphic design, this means nothing to you.

Take just about any hardware synth manufacturer: Alesis, for example. Same general look, some of the same controls, yet different sound sources with their own methods of processing sound. But once past the cosmetic similarities, no one would mistake an Andromeda or an Ion for a QuadraSynth. The first group uses single-cycle wavetables (or an analog source) to produce the raw sound, and gears the processing stages towards that. The second type uses full samples stored in ROM, and aims for an appropriate processing of that. Both will contain similar stages in the signal chain, each with features unique to that type of synthesis.

To compare, I'd place Rapture in the first group, and Dimension Pro in the second. I hate to be so cut & dried in the description, because there is some overlap. Not in the sense of redundant (IMO), but transferable. This is a good thing; not a waste of your hard-earned dollars. Like a Gestalt, "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts." A unified architecture; forward & backward-compatible (in one sense). You can use the basic sound sources of one in a limited fashion within the other synth. That's where the two approaches part company.

Rapture then takes it's "sources" (wavetable or sample), and splits it into multiple oscillators, ring modulates it, filters and "effects" it in more ways, modulates it with StepGens, user-defined LFOs, a very deep MIDI control, and a Global processing section. And you have six layers of synthesizers to do this with.

Dimension Pro takes it's sources (wavetable, physical modeling, or samples), and runs it through a similar, but not as extensive, set of processing options. More appropriately geared to what it does best: sample-based synthesis. And you can do this four times over. The new DP 1.2 update "borrows" some of the advanced features of Rapture, and incorporates them into its workflow. Rapture is newer, and has the advantages of extended R&D.

I've compared the two here (deeply), and I can say with confidence that the similarities remain on the surface. I just wish that I could explain that a little better. Rapture is more of a future-retro version of what you would think of as 'classic synthesis construction'. The go-to synth for synthesis of sounds beyond naturally-occurring ones. And it also does samples. Dimension Pro is geared towards 'natural' instrument sounds and processing those into something unique. But it also does subtractive synthesis. And the defintion of 'natural' ranges from a violin to the human voice to 'found' sounds, like a trash can lid.

Hmm ... Rapture='pure' synthesis + sample support. Dimension Pro=sample-based synthesis+waveform support. Each has its own focus.
I hope that this clarified, rather than confused the 'issue'. If it's the former, please fire back.

I'm impressed by the precision on the concepts by b, as usual. In the old days, a synthesizer used to be either subtractive, fm or sample-playback. That's not true anymore nowadays: let's think in the OASYS for instance. It has wavetable synthesis, sample-playback. And guess what, he just got a waveguide module



I'll try to add my comments to above questions, in the-short-way.

Is one a superset of the other?

No.

Can Rapture play all DimPro sounds?

'Sounds' are not something simple as 'sounds'. They are in both represented by wavetables, samples, multisamples, elements and programs, in increasing hierarchy. Rapture and Dimension Pro can share wavetables, samples and multisamples in WAV/AIF/AIFF/OGG/SFZ formats. Unique to Dimension Pro is REX/RCY/RX2 support They can't share Element and Program files.

If not, why not?

Element and Program files are dependant on the synth architecture. Therefore, neither will play the other files.
There was a good analogy stated in the forums comparing Dimension Pro and Rapture with Excel and Word: you can share basic-level structures (wavetables, samples, multisamples), but not high-level documents (can't open a spreadsheet in word).

Is Rapture basically DimPro with more features?

It has some features more, some features less, and a totally different sound set.

If so, what features? Or is it different in other ways? And if so, in what ways?

Dimension Pro has as unique features the 7GB sound library including loads of acoustic/orchestral sounds and the Garritan Pocket Orchestra, REX/RCY/RX2 playback, two effect sends per element, two bus-return type effects, vector mixer, drag-and-drop of groove patterns into the host. Rapture has two more elements, multi oscillators, portamento, oscillator and element-level ring modulation, two filters, variable dsp order, two more modulator pages, one-shot mode for the LFOs, 42 step generators per-program, global effects, expanded ranges in most parameters, 24-rows mod matrix (vs. 16).

I still think that Craig's words were very precise, and possibly the key point using few words.


-Rene

Rapture and Dimension Pro can share wavetables, samples and multisamples in WAV/AIF/AIFF/OGG/SFZ formats. Unique to Dimension Pro is REX/RCY/RX2 support

Ok. I was getting the impression Rapture can only do small sound loops. So both can do each other's .sfz files, even long ones. Ok.

They can't share Element and Program files.

Yes, ok, so no backward compatibility like, say, Akai. At that level, each is unique and cannot be compatible. Good, got it.

Dimension Pro
two effect sends per element, two bus-return type effects,
vector mixer,
drag-and-drop of groove patterns into the host.

Rapture
6 elements // and DP has 4.
multi oscillators // Is a multi oscillator a range in an .sfz file?
portamento, // DP does not have portamento? Oh! I didn't know. Ok.
oscillator and element-level ring modulation,
two filters, // Am I right in assuming this means per element?
variable dsp order, // Does dsp mean effects, i.e. reverb, chorus, etc. order is user definable?
two more modulator pages,
one-shot mode for the LFOs,
42 step generators per-program,
global effects,
expanded ranges in most parameters,
24-rows mod matrix (vs. 16). // Can one see these anywhere? (My Akai Z8 has 64, I think, but includes things like velocity.)

I still think that Craig's words were very precise, and possibly the key point using few words.

Well, it's billed as a pro review. I was hoping for something more informative.

b-rock - thanks. That was a good link. I've downloaded it for reference.

I noticed you had to explain to someone what EG means. I see it's necessary to cater to all levels of know-how.

Perhaps I've been in the game too long, but when I buy a synth, I like to imagine what I can do with it. So when I look at specs, I already know what 12dB low-pass filters are going to sound like (Oberheim -yes, yes, I know, DP and Rapture are way beyond this!!! Just an example). And I want to know whether the LFO reaches up into the lower audio range (vocal effect, FM).

I appreciate soft synths are vastly more feature rich than a minimoog :), but the specs are online, not on paper, so I really, really believe a comprehesive list of what it can do represents useful data to potential buyers.

It takes less time to list them than to program them, surely? :)

It takes less time to list them than to program them, surely? :)

Definitely. Doing both takes more time than any other combination though



-René

cmusicmaker

While information for Rapture clearly exists online do you mean info like this...? z3ta

Yup. That's more like it! Not as ponderously long as I imagined...

So does something like this exist for Rapture?

Yes, Rapture is multitimbral over six elements: MIDI channels 1-6.

Is there a conflict here with DPs multitimbral lock down to ch1-4?

Hi b rock!

The exception is with Rapture's new .sfz file with an embedded audio file.

Oh, no. Sounds like .sfz is on its way to being just yet another monolithic structure. Do you know why this change was made?

When Polyphony mode is 0 in Rapture (mono & legato), and you have a Scala file loaded in the Element, you can...

This sounds interesting - will try it in DimPro tonight.

DP does not have portamento?

Does not, except for a trick in an sfz file.

Ha! I accept that as ahomework assignment for me tonight!

I wasn't able to figure it out. :(

Just bumping this since I see that Craig has added some more comments to his review thread, including how he used the StepGens to get wavesequencing kinds of sounds:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=6cd73837f0a276b925a56068e0171508&threadid=1188738

Hi everybody! A few comments...

First, the Rapture review is FAR from wrapping up. Unfortunately I made the mistake of starting it before the Frankfurt trade show, which was unusually intense for me this year (in a good way, but intense nonetheless). So the review sort of came to a halt for a while, but it's back and I have a few surprises coming up :) Note to self: Don't start a Pro Review unless I have six uninterrupted weeks in front of me...

Re Dimension Pro/Rapture comparisons. Please, if you have a problem with the review ask your question there or it won't get answered (and I'm not going to answer it here, because I think any questions would be of interest to others reading the Pro Review -- they might not know about this thread). And also, bear in mind that a Pro Review is a progression of learning about something. A few weeks ago I was a Rapture newbie and didn't feel comfortable giving an "authoritative" DP vs. Rapture comparison. I know a lot more about the two now.

Also bear in mind that I double on guitar and keyboards. DP vs. Rapture is kind of a Les Paul vs. Strat thing. You can look at the stats all you want (different neck radius and scale length, single coil vs. double coil pickups, etc.) but in the end they don't tell you about the "feel" of the two instruments, which is a factor here. Of the two, Rapture is more to my liking because it's all about taking minimalist raw materials and wringing every last ounce of sound out of them. DP is fine, but for sample playback, there are a lot of other good programs. I will say, thought, that the DP engine is a big deal: The drum sounds don't "thud," they "crack" - beautiful transient response and clarity.

Overall, Rapture intrigues the hell out of me. I come up with things I don't think I can do with it, then find out there is a way to do what I imagined. The Wavesequencing is an example of that.

Anyway, glad there's interest and PLEASE, participate in the thread!! There are some fascinating comments in this thread and I wish they had appeared in the Pro Review. Remember, a Pro Review is at its best when it's interactive.