headphones...

ORIGINAL: scottiedo

im just getting started. i recorded a band just for the learning experience. they arent paying me and shouldnt. anyways. i dont have the funds to buy a pair of nearfields that are half decent so what sould i do to mix it? is there a pair of headphones out there that are flat so i actually hear my mix? any suggestions on what i can do? thanks

The Audio Technica ATH-M40fs are the only ones I've found for under $200 that are flat enough for mixing.

I'm an AKG guy myself. They are pretty flat and good for mixing and even better - they are built like tanks. I have some AKG's here that are going on 5 years now and have been thrown around the studio and abused and I'm amazed that they still work. The only thing that broke was the little connector end (I hate those 1/8" inch plugs). Why professional headphone makers insist on using those things is beyond me. Really, what piece of gear in your studio uses a 1/8" headphone jack? An Ipod? You wouldn't use a pair of AKG's for that anyway. Sorry, I'm ranting

what would be a decent pair of NF for around that price. im a college student haha

My vote goes for the ATHM40 as well! Can't go wrong with those!

ORIGINAL: Mike_GN

I like my Sennheiser HD-280 Pro's.

Anyone elso out there try them? What do you think?

i got a pair of these and they were good for starting out, however you will be left clueless as to the bass situation until you learn them. i suggest a car stereo for a reality check. i think they hide the "boomy" frequencies but aren't bad for mixing mids or highs. they'll also make your mix sound better than it does, in my opinion.

as for nearfields, i got a pair of behringer truths with the 8" woofers. they are decent for the price, but you'll have to learn those too as they tend to hide the "boomy" freqs as well (just not as bad as the md280's). the bass response is decent but still leaves you in the dark about anything below 60hz or so. probably a pair suggested above with a sub would be better.

If you try the senheiser 580's you'll never go back.
-D

ORIGINAL: ohhey



The Audio Technica ATH-M40fs are the only ones I've found for under $200 that are flat enough for mixing.

Yeah.... i love then... txs to ohey who recomend that to me...
here is my 2 cents on popular... cans.. below 200... ( afordable )

SONYS 7506...... trebly...
AKG 240´s ..... mid scooped....
ATHm40fs -----FLAT!!!!

i love my aths...
i have used and tried... sonys 7506 and Akgs....

but... i feel better with the ATH´s....
to make late pre-mixes ( wife slepping besides me... )
that sound in the ballpark on the mons... on the next day.... ( just some tweaks..)
my 2 cents
Greets
Rolo

I followed Frank Coffey's advice a year ago regarding the AT's, and he was on the money.

I don't normally mix thru cans as a rule, but I found that if I had to, the AT's were the best bet.

Like Kriz, I also have the obligatory AKG K240's, but my experience with them regarding reliability hasn't been as good as his.

I really thought that AKG dropped the ball a few years back when they switched the 1/4 " jack on the end from the original hard wired type to a removeable type to use the 1/8" stereo underneath. I feel it's turned out to be a stress point and all three pair that I have eventually crapped out at this point. Also, I feel the AT's are a bit more sealed and protect more against bleed than the 240's. While this isn't such a big deal with mixing, it is a big deal to me while tracking.

FWIW, I recently picked up a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 active NF's for about 300 bucks (for the pair). I already use JBL's, NS10's and Alesis Monitor 1's, but I wanted a pair of powered mon's light enough to carry with me when I'm travelling. I have to say, they really don't sound bad at all, and with the exception of having to get used to a 5" woof, I have found they translate pretty nicely to other playback mediums.

Just a thought or two...

D.

ORIGINAL: DonnyAir

...Like Kriz, I also have the obligatory AKG K240's, but my experience with them regarding reliability hasn't been as good as his...

Donny,

I have several K141's that I've owned for 10 years or more and they're still working great for tracking purposes...(and they have the obligatory--IMO--¼" stereo plug)...

I also have a couple of K240DF's that I have really grown to love using for my own vocal work...Again, they have the ¼" stereo plug--The frequency response for headphone apps is really good...Hate the fact that they're now (or about to be) a "discontinued" product...

I really thought that AKG dropped the ball a few years back when they switched the 1/4 " jack on the end from the original hard wired type to a removeable type to use the 1/8" stereo underneath. I feel it's turned out to be a stress point and all three pair that I have eventually crapped out at this point.

You are correct...However, don't totally blame AKG...Computer companies are responsible for the 1/8" jack becoming the "norm"...Personally, I want nothing to do with any piece of hardware (soundcards, etc.,) that uses a 1/8" plug or jack...

...I already use JBL's, NS10's and Alesis Monitor 1's,...

Damn! Sounds a lot like my studio:

JBL LSR6322's (Power Amp: Crown XS-1200);
NS10's (Power Amp: Crown XLS-602);
Alesis Monitor One's (Power Amp: Alesis RA-150)...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Having stated all of the above, I can't offer any recommendations for "mixing in the cans"...Frankly, I don't think there are any headphones that can truthfully translate a "mix" situation...However, I see the wave of the future...I-Pods and other MP3 players using ear-buds...I think we're going to have to come up with a compromise...Let's face it, how many people do you know (John Doe, not serious musicians) who actually sit on a sofa and listen to their stereo system anymore? Probably not many...And that, IMO, is a tragic thing for those of us who really care about what we're producing...

ORIGINAL: DonnyAir

Frankly, I don't think there are any headphones that can truthfully translate a "mix" situation...

Nor did I... until I found the AT's. And, while it's not my preferred method... I still much prefer NF's... I do like knowing that if I was in a situation where I had to use cans to mix with, I could using the AT's.

I'm actually not minding these new Wharfedale's I picked up either. They're not my first choice out of the NF's I own, but the fact that they don't sound bad, and are light enough to travel with, (I'm really not crazy about carrying around my Hafler or Crown with a pair of JBL's...try checking that package into luggage check at the airport) are active and cost me around 300 for the pair was attractive.

I'm not hard-selling these, cats need to use what they are comfortable with...but if you are looking for an inexpensive pair of active's, these are worth at least looking at.

FWIW

D.

Most headphones like the AKG K240s try to be "nice" and not hurt your ears with harsh mids, that's great to prevent ear fatigue on long tracking sessions but a disaster for mixing or editing wav files. However, they are too open for tracking so they are mainly just good for listening or when tracking electric guitar where you are not close to a mic.

The Audio Technica ATH-M40fs tell it like it is for the most part so you can get the mix right. The only thing you can't judge might be the very low end. Many stereos have bass boosting because older recordings didn't have much, so you have to make sure your mix doesn't become boomy. A cheap set of bass boosting phones as a second reference will let you spot check the low end.

I would like to mix with speakers but it's just not possible, any time I'm mixing my wife is trying to sleep, so I've learned to work with them and my mixes are working in the car and other stereos now.

ORIGINAL: DonnyAir

The only thing you can't judge might be the very low end

and the only other slight conmplaint I would add to this would maybe be "imaging", and I don't think, or at least in my experience, that any set of cans can be relied upon to give you a true representation to this, unless of course all your listeners would be using cans too...and, that having been said, I feel it's fast moving in that direction.

LOL..so ignore all of the above from me.

I'm lucky in that I do have one option on my Grace M902 headphone amp that simulates the imaging with speakers, all I have to do is turn on the X-Feed function and check the mix that way. However, you are right about how folks listen to music these days, I check my mixes with Apple iPod earbuds also, they have become the new Yamaha NS-10m reference for me LOL ! If your mix sounds good on Apple earbuds it will sound good most places.

ORIGINAL: papa2004

Most headphones like the AKG K240s try to be "nice" and not hurt your ears with harsh mids, that's great to prevent ear fatigue on long tracking sessions but a disaster for mixing or editing wav files. However, they are too open for tracking so they are mainly just good for listening or when tracking electric guitar where you are not close to a mic.

Frank,

I must disagree with you about AKG's not being useful for tracking...I use them all the time and the "bleed" I get is minimal...As an example, you can hear a sample clip of a lead vocal I recorded a few nights ago using a TLM 170-RMT (set to Omni pattern because I move around a lot when singing this kind of music) and a pair of K240DF's for monitoring...For the purpose of this post, I automated a fade of the vocal track in one brief silent passage just to be able to emphasize the difference (or lack thereof) in the "bleed" factor...BTW, I tend to run my cans pretty hot (very close to the Fletcher-Munson curve line rule of too "hot" for vocal pitch discrepancies) and I was never more than a foot away from the mic while singing...(You can hear some minimal "noise" of me moving the headphone cable toward the end of this sample, but the bleed from the cans is virtually non-existent in the context of using the track in a mix)...

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO WHAT I MEAN.

I can hear the bleed in that sample but it's lower then I was ever able to get, But I may have been using more gain on the mic. I used an AKG C414 or AKG Solid Tube on vocals and acoustic gutiar, they pick up everything even me breathing ! I get a lot less on the Audio Technicas becuase they are closed, that also lets me monitor at a better volume so I can keep in time better. The AKG K-240s were easy on the ears but I couldn't hear the mids without using too much volume. That's just my experiance anyway. On some of those vocal tracks I should have used a dynamic mic and that would have helped but I wanted the sound of the condensor and I didn't have a good dynamic mic back then.

Yeah.. with Sonar I can use the clip gain to mute out most of that. The only time it's a big deal is if the acoustic guitar strum ends the song and decays into silence. These days you can have the music or click track fade out quick at the end of the song and hold your breath as the guitar rings out. But back then I had no automation so the only thing I could do is make a headphone kill switch out of an old sustain pedal.