Questions to developers about Rapture demo

Why is possible only one portamento (legato) mode?

Why multi mode is accessible only to one cycle waveform?
And only without start sync.
And no possibility to edit stereo range.

Why there are no global envelopes of amp, filter, etc.?
- for layered patches this is insufficient.

Why if initial wav file is lost, Rapture is not proposed for search it?
- for example as in Battery (search/locate)
- appears only the window (Not found)
- but if in the project several instruments and in each on 2-3 sounds
or folder was displaced or system was reinstalled?.... this is sadly.

And finally, what does occur with the sound in the range after 15000 hz?
- Original sound actually spoils.
It is checked on the different systems in hi/std quality with the bypass filters.
Is probable this the problem of the antialiasing.

Thus I understood that the code was not written in all cases.
In other words, instrument is not completed.
I examined it as sampler.
If not there would be questions of the given ones by me,
Rapture would be greatly grow prettier by replacement to all existing nowadays sampleplayers.
But thus far it looks like early beta version.

And I even forgot to mention about multitimbral mode.
- If there is this work mode, it would be worthwhile to add multiouts.

About the search for lost samples.
The keyword - transference and compatability of project to other setup.
This is a basic difference in serious work from the entertainment.
If product is positioned for the professional market, has sense to consider the nuances.
For example I collaborate with the different studios and it is not possible to synchronize setap simply.

and sound damage about:

pics - http://www.mytempdir.com/616785
samples - http://www.mytempdir.com/616808

I really fail to see what you mean.

Because it doesn't work the way that you want it to work you consider it to be incomplete?

Even after it was explained to you that the things that you dislike were not in the design.

ORIGINAL: tenor

and sound damage about:

pics - http://www.mytempdir.com/616785
samples - http://www.mytempdir.com/616808

OK, you're having exactly the same sound quality loss problems I'm having with Rapture. The trouble is, I already bought it and paid money for it. You can view my ongoing thread here.

It's already been determined that if you load a single-cycle waveform into Rapture, Rapture will "rebuild" the entire waveform with its harmonics in such a way as to prevent aliasing, thus resulting in a slightly different-sounding sample. However, it is supposed to be able to play multi-cycle samples in tact (and it doesn't), which is why I put up a drum loop comparison on the thread. Try loading a longer sample into Rapture and see if it still cuts off the high end, will you? I want to make 100% sure it isn't only me that's having a problem.

If this is a confirmable issue, then either I want promises it will be fixed, or I want my money back. Because at the moment, Rapture's sound engine SUCKS.

I also contacted Cakewalk's tech support about this issue, and I haven't heard back yet. We'll wait and see.

Shayne

I examined it as sampler.

I see, thanks. I think this is the main reason for you seeing it as "not complete". Rapture is not a sampler, nor it will be. It's a wavetable synthesizer, you can find the full specification and public information page here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Rapture/default.asp

Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy receiving 'wishes' and 'more stuff please' comments, either privately or publicly. I do that all the time, and old timers know that many of their wishes will become true one day. However, asking "why there's not multi mode for samples" and after my explanation cathegorizing Rapture as an "early beta" is somehow unfair in my humble view. Anyways, I understand more your expectations after knowing you were expecting a sampler. I'd say, come back in few months. We'll be on it, hope one day we can make something worthy for you to consider.

It's already been determined that if you load a single-cycle waveform into Rapture, Rapture will "rebuild" the entire waveform with its harmonics in such a way as to prevent aliasing, thus resulting in a slightly different-sounding sample. However, it is supposed to be able to play multi-cycle samples in tact (and it doesn't), which is why I put up a drum loop comparison on the thread.

One more time in one more thread, your problem is not generated by Rapture. I repeated your experiment with your drum loop and wavetable, and as I mentioned in the other thread the audio quality remains intact. I suspect that your problem is generated either by

1- Your system is not reacting to the sinc interpolation toggle in the Options menu. This needs to be able to write the registry, and that can fail for several reasons, all related to your system (privileges, protective software, etc.).
2- Your host doesn't notify Rapture that its freezing or rendering. There're a few hosts which won't notify if they're playing, freezing or rendering, so Rapture won't be able to use the full quality rendering. If you have a host capable of DXi/VST, or DXi/AU you can try the alternate format. Some hosts notify some formats only.
3- Your system has a samplerate conflict. This means, it forces Rapture to resample up or down and then back. This might happen because the samplerate of the original material difers from the project samplerate or output samplerate.

Rapture will play at full quality during realtime when processing wavetables, but unlike Dimension Pro it selects a lower interpolation mode when playing samples realtime, which it maxes on render/freeze. It also loads samples at 16-bit, while Dimension Pro allows for 16 and 32-bit. There're tricks to enable 32-bit in Rapture and to force several playback modes, but none of those is enabled by default, as the goal of the synthesizer is to load and play wavetables. Please make sure to detail explicitly what is your host to Technical Support, so they can figure a way to reproduce your issues and can point you to specific tests.


-René

OK, I tried the VST version in Sonar -- it worked on render! Sounds great! Thanks for the tip, Rene! So the DXi version isn't doing the sinc interpolation properly. Hmm....

As I said before, however, I do most of my work in realtime. So there's got to be a way to implement sinc interpolation in realtime. Even wavetable playback sounded better with it. I don't care how hard the CPU hit is -- please, please, figure out how to enable the interpolation in realtime! It'll make Rapture sound so much better!

Shayne

And Larry, don't know about your problem

Well, My little problem is not anywhere near what Shane is going through.

My Rap and Dpro sound superb in every respect. It is probably a simple fix. Root note all wave samples in SForge and it locks in the pitch. And when I think about it. I should have done that to start. This was a my fault thing.
I just got in a hurry, made a few tests, jumped in and started doing the do before I thought about it very hard. I do that sometime ;)+) But even when there is a variation of pitch it's not sounding bad. I can't believe how far a can stretch a sample with it still sounding good.

First of all, sorry for bringing life to this thread again ...

Grabbed the Rapture Demo and installed it. Made a sample in D3, 44.1khz 16bit. Created a simple .sfz to load the sample into Rapture just allowing it to change the pitch +/- 1 semitone.
And I get the same result as Shayne... dull sound .. like an mp3 coded in 96kbit

<region> 
   sample=sound d3.wav 
   lokey=c#3 
   hikey=d#3
   pitch_keycenter=d3

Shayne White wrote :
OK, I tried the VST version in Sonar -- it worked on render! Sounds great! Thanks for the tip, Rene! So the DXi version isn't doing the sinc interpolation properly. Hmm....

Hmm.. It's the VSTi version I have problem with ....

René wrote :
One more time in one more thread, your problem is not generated by Rapture. I repeated your experiment with your drum loop and wavetable, and as I mentioned in the other thread the audio quality remains intact. I suspect that your problem is generated either by

1- Your system is not reacting to the sinc interpolation toggle in the Options menu. This needs to be able to write the registry, and that can fail for several reasons, all related to your system (privileges, protective software, etc.).
2- Your host doesn't notify Rapture that its freezing or rendering. There're a few hosts which won't notify if they're playing, freezing or rendering, so Rapture won't be able to use the full quality rendering. If you have a host capable of DXi/VST, or DXi/AU you can try the alternate format. Some hosts notify some formats only.
3- Your system has a samplerate conflict. This means, it forces Rapture to resample up or down and then back. This might happen because the samplerate of the original material difers from the project samplerate or output samplerate.

Rapture will play at full quality during realtime when processing wavetables, but unlike Dimension Pro it selects a lower interpolation mode when playing samples realtime, which it maxes on render/freeze. It also loads samples at 16-bit, while Dimension Pro allows for 16 and 32-bit. There're tricks to enable 32-bit in Rapture and to force several playback modes, but none of those is enabled by default, as the goal of the synthesizer is to load and play wavetables. Please make sure to detail explicitly what is your host to Technical Support, so they can figure a way to reproduce your issues and can point you to specific tests.

1. Tried it with a clean system with admin rights (only a host, audio drivers and the plugin installed). No change in audio quality (still dull). Ran windows update and updated my system (Windows XP Pro SP2) without any luck of improving quality (didn't think it would either ...)

2. Tried with ReNoise 1.5.2 (vst tracker), Zynewave Podium v1.62, and Cubase SL v3.1.1.944. Same problem in all hosts (both in realtime and rendering with/without sinc), using VSTi.

3. Reinstalled my system 3 times with different version numbers on the audio drivers, in case there were some incompability (reinstalled the system just to make sure all 'older' files were gone instead of just uninstalling the driver). As the sample was made to be a 44.1khz 16bit I used the same settings for the projects in the different hosts. Also checked the control panel for the audio card (M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496) just to make sure it was set to 44.1khz (with a DMA buffer of 384 samples (latency)). Same dull sound whatever I do ...

As a last resort I used my girlfriends computer with a Soundblaster Audigy 2 (just with ReNoise and the Rapture Demo) and still got the same result as before...

I'm aware that Rapture's primary usage is for loading 'wavetables' (single cycle waveforms), but it has the ability to load longer samples as well.

Here are some test I made:

First part of wave file is the 'original' as it should sound. The end part is played through Rapture with sinc on. Just playing the notes C#3 - D3 - D#3 with a root key of D3 :Test Wave 1

This wave is played through Rapture (sinc on) with a project setup of 96khz 16bit and it almost sound right, with a glitch in the beginning of each note (Still the 44.1, 16 wave file being played in 96khz) : Test Wave 2

I'm not an expert in any way, but shouldn't the 'resample problem' you describe above occur in other players/samplers as well (like the Direct Wave Sampler) which seems to work flawless for me ? Think I'm walking on thin ice here ...

I hope you don't get this as I am criticizing your product. I would gladely buy it if I can solve this matter. There would be no end to the possibilities I would have with this great piece of software. I know of the Dimension Pro too, but it seems less oriented to the electronic side of music (eek, maybe shouldn't have said that , but there seems to be more effects etc in the Rapture synth that I could take advantage of + the wavetable/(unison)detune and possibilities to load samples)
Just to make you aware of another (demo) user having problem with the plugin and I will stand corrected if it's my own fault!

Some computer specs:

Intel P4 2.8Ghz (hyperthreading)
1Gb RAM
ASUS P4P800 Motherboard (I865 chipset)
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496 (tried the 5.10.00.0048a, 5.10.00.5051, 5.10.00.5052v3 drivers)

No conflicts in the hardware device manager and the computer seems to run fine as I know of it ...

EDIT : Smoothed (made a short fade in) the sample and tried to play it with a project setup of 96khz which almost seemed to sound ok apart from the glitches in the beginning of each note (thought the problem with the glitches could be the start of the sample ). Still the same result with the sample starting from a zero-crossing and a fade in...

My problem was never a dul sound. It was pitch related and keycenter transpose/tune will solve that now. I experianced a change in how Rapture handels a wavefile on load and after saving as a prog. I thought a set root note on edit in soundforge would solve that buts it's just a matter of tuning the wavefile in Rapture with a wavetable. setting the transpose/tune.