Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning

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b rock
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2006/05/23 10:28:36 (permalink)

Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning

This one is a quickie two-Element patch that will work with Rapture or any Dimension(s). The tutorial is divided into three parts: easy, intermediate, and "more involved". You can stop at any major division here, and still have a usable patch. The point here is to use waveforms with a lot of harmonics, no filters, and still get a rich-sounding sweep with little effort. The approach is similar to 'through-zero' flanging, using slight amounts of offset detuning with LFOs. You might want to enable the Limiter at this point.

1). Load up the Brass 04.wav from the Multisample/Oscillator window in Element 1. In Dimension, it's in 00 - Wavetables; in Rapture: 072. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's bright. No sine or triangle .wavs, but square, saw, and just about anything else is fine.
2). This is the tough part: the Amp EG. You only have to do it once. Do yourself a favor, and fine tune with the (Qwerty) arrow keys. It's a pretty standard ADSR-type of shape, so it'll come in handy later. There a fairly sharp attack/decay with staccato playing; reminiscent of a plucked instrument. Legato playing brings in a thicker pad with somewhat of a Doppler Effect.

EG Status: On
Depth: 100
Vel -> int: 0.0
Vel -> tim: 0.0
VelTrack: 100

Amplitude - # 0/4 time: 0.0 tdif: 0.0 level: 0.000 (Default position.)
Amplitude - # 1/4 time: 0.1 tdif: 0.1 level: 1.000 (You need to zoom way in for this.)
Amplitude - # 2/4 time: 450.0 tdif: 499.9 level: 0.500 (Unnecessary; illustrates standard ADSR envelopes.)
Amplitude - # 3/4 time: 500.0 tdif: 50.0 level: 0.500 (Press "S" to make this the [orange line] sustain point.)
Amplitude - # 4/4 time: 1000.0 tdif: 500.0 level: 0.500 (Press "N" for an exponential [blue] curve.)

3). Go to the Pitch Modulator, and in the in the Pitch LFO:

Waveform: 1 - Sine
Status: On
Freq: 1.00
Sync; N/A
Delay: 0.50
Fade: 0.50
Depth: 10

4). Right-click on E1, and Copy Element. Right-click on E2, and Paste Element. At this point, we've simply doubled everything up exactly. In the Pitch LFO in E2, change the following setting:

Freq: 0.50

The Delay times in the LFO's are a half-second; the same amount of time that the Amp EG takes to settle it's initial decay to the sustain level. Over the next half-second, the Fade time brings up the two LFO Depths gradually at different frequencies. The slight Depths create cancellations & reinforcements for a swirling detuned pad texture. That's the basic patch. You really have to go no further. But ...

************


For the adventureous: Shift+click on E2's Pitch LFO GUI, and drag the waveform out of phase with E1's. Change the waveform shape to another dissimilar form. In Rapture, you can use the Random generators or a user-defined LFO. Adjust the relationship between the Freq in E1 & E2.

For the Leslie freaks: Break out the MIDI Matrix (third icon of four), and assign four slots using the same MIDI Source. I used Channel Aftertouch, but feel free to substitute the Mod Wheel. etc.

MIDI Matrix Slot 1
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Pitch LFO Depth 1
Depth: -10
Smooth: 3.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 2
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Pitch LFO Depth 2
Depth: -30
Smooth: 2.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 3
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Pitch LFO Freq 1
Depth: 2.5
Smooth: 2.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 4
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Pitch LFO Freq 2
Depth: 2.5
Smooth: 5.0

In the example above, a harder press on the keyboard controller increases both the depth & speed of the detuning effect in different amounts (per-LFO). This is a great framework for swapping Multisamples in & out. The basic structure remains, but the sound source will change the entire character around in the results. Try Chimes, Organ, different sync waveforms per-Element, FM; anything with 'some meat on its bones'. And break out your sustain pedal.

************


Still here? OK, we'll add some filters to the mix, and that'll pretty much push the subtle detuning to the background. We're going to steal the envelope from the Amp EG, and the LFO's from the Pitch Modulators, and let those control the filter cutoff(s) and resonance(s). Stay 'within your Element' here to match the filter actions to the detuning setup.

In Element 1: Select a LP 6p filter, and leave the Cutoff knob at 8.2 Hz.
Right-click/Copy Envelope on the Amp icon. Right-click/Copy LFO on the Pitch icon. Go to both the Cut(1) & Reso(1) icons, and right-click/Paste Envelope, then Paste LFO. The envelope & LFO go into both filter parameters.

In Element 2: Select a Comb filter, and leave the Cutoff knob at 8.2 Hz. Repeat the exact Copy/Paste procedure above; isolated within E2. The settings will tranfer into filter parameters in a lighter fashion. If you decide to bump up the Depth or VelTrack in any of these, be sure to have your Limiter set to On at this point. The filters here will accent staccato playing moreso than sustained notes. To revert back to the original patch, disable the Filter in E1 & E2, and set the Cut & Reso Status to Off in both Elements.

If you'd like to somewhat match the "Leslie" response above, and add filtering to your Doppler Effect, you might add the following in eight more slots to the MIDI Matrix:

MIDI Matrix Slot 5
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Cutoff LFO Depth 1
Depth: -1200
Smooth: 1.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 6
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Cutoff LFO Depth 2
Depth: -1800
Smooth: 3.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 7
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Cutoff LFO Freq 1
Depth: 2.5
Smooth: 3.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 8
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Cutoff LFO Freq 2
Depth: 2.5
Smooth: 2.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 9
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Reso LFO Depth 1
Depth: -1.0
Smooth: 3.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 10
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Reso LFO Depth 2
Depth: -3.0
Smooth: 5.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 11
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Reso LFO Freq 1
Depth: 2.5
Smooth: 1.0

MIDI Matrix Slot 12
Source: Channel Aftertouch
Destination: Reso LFO Freq 2
Depth: 2.5
Smooth: 1.0
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    naughtyhill
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/23 19:05:07 (permalink)
    Hey B thats great stuff!
    I went all the way down with this. Remote controlling the **** out of it.
    Even greater if I run it through the Arpeggiatorrrrrrrr
    setting monophonic yes yes yes!

    Never knew that I could shift the lfo with Shift+click+drag until today
    I need to read more of the fffff manual.

    Cheers,

    NTH.

    #2
    fac
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/23 19:57:39 (permalink)
    Great sig, naughty.

    http://facproductions.net

    Lots of gear. Not enough time.
    #3
    b rock
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/24 09:00:21 (permalink)
    I went all the way down with this. Remote controlling the **** out of it.
    Excellent, NTH. I hope that you saved the work. Here's a couple of quick tweaks that change the basic character around. You'll end up with a more bell-like tone in the 'plucked' portion, and thicken/double up both the early stages and the later detuned sustaining part. Nice resonant filter *clicking* in the remote control version of the full patch.

    5). Substitute the vg.wav in both E1 and E2. In Dimension, 00 - Wavetables; in Rapture, 026.
    6). In Element 1: Tune +1 on the Multisample/Oscillator window. In E2: Tune -1.

    ************


    There's an interesting small .sfz file that's found in Dimension's 00 - Wavetables, called "multisaw 5st.sfz". It's got some built-in panning effects that widen up this patch quite a bit, along with a few surprises. With very little work, you can adapt it for use in Rapture, then substutute it for the vg.wav in Step 5). Here's how it (originally) reads:
    <group>
    sample=saw mini.wav oscillator=on oscillator_phase=-1

    <region> pitch_oncc140=-30 pan=100
    <region> pitch_oncc140=-20 pan=50
    <region> pitch_oncc140=-10
    <region> pitch_oncc140=10
    <region> pitch_oncc140=20 pan=50
    <region> pitch_oncc140=30 pan=100
    You can make a copy of this file, and drop it into Rapture's Multisample folder. There's still the *saw mini.wav* that's referenced in the original .sfz file, but it's called something else. So you make a quick change in the text file (and save it) to point Rapture in the right direction. I simply added "016 - " to the first line:
    <group>
    sample=016 - saw mini.wav oscillator=on oscillator_phase=-1

    <region> pitch_oncc140=-30 pan=100
    <region> pitch_oncc140=-20 pan=50
    <region> pitch_oncc140=-10
    <region> pitch_oncc140=10
    <region> pitch_oncc140=20 pan=50
    <region> pitch_oncc140=30 pan=100
    Now Rapture can make use of the same file. Did I mention adjusting the Bit Red control in the final results? It doesn't even have to be "On". Talk about detuning ... We haven't even touched on Rapture's massive multi-oscillator/detuning/panning features, because I was keeping this as applicable to both synthesizers as I could. But it is nice to know that you can use some of the same resources (with some slight mods) across both applications.
    #4
    René
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/24 09:46:52 (permalink)
    Amazing b. I'd like to give a slight insight on a techie detail about the multisaw.

    Both Rapture and Dimension Pro can play the above multisaw.sfz file. So is that the same thing as having the MULTI switch turned on in Rapture?

    Not really. Rapture MULTI mode will create 3, 5, 7 or 9 oscillators with the loaded samples, which then will be routed to a -single- dsp chain. This means, the two filters will process the mix of all oscillators as a whole.

    This effect results in a higher control when applying distortion and lo-fi effect, and reduces enormously the CPU load.
    In other words, if you apply to the sfz file above a filter, 3 EGs and 2 LFOs, and then play a single note, then you'll get six filters, 18 EGs and 12 LFOs pumping at once. Using Rapture MULTI mode, you get one filter, 3 EGs and 2 LFOs. This allows you to stack another element with another MULTI osc, and still having your room with a decent temperature.

    The sfz has some advantages though: you can specify the six voices to play with a random value affecting something like filter cutoff on each, so they behave individually from start to end like in the old synthies unison modes. Expensive, but cool results could come out of it.


    -René
    #5
    naughtyhill
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/24 11:33:42 (permalink)
    Filter madnezzzz!
    I love it.
    thx again B and René.
    I shall look into the possibilties a bit more next tuesday when I get home from Paris.
    Leaving tonight yeeehaaaaw!!!

    @ fac: Thanx

    #6
    b rock
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/24 12:32:50 (permalink)
    Paris, eh, NTH? I hear that it's lovely in springtime ... I suppose that there'll be French women there, too ... Hmmm ...


    OK, where were we?
    This allows you to stack another element with another MULTI osc, and still having your room with a decent temperature.

    The sfz has some advantages though: you can specify the six voices to play with a random value affecting something like filter cutoff on each, so they behave individually from start to end like in the old synthies unison modes. Expensive, but cool results could come out of it.
    Man, I do love the ease of getting the programmer's perspective on the advantages/disadvantages of a particular approach. I wasn't considering the resource usage when I threw this thread together. That's a great explanation, René, and as good of an excuse as any to bring back Chad Beckwith [Cakewalk]'s cool oscillator breakdown. (Why do these guys always have a three-part name? It reads like the guest shot roster for America's Most Wanted.]

    Actually, it was hard to pick among Chad's illustrations; they all apply. But this one above reminds me of a neat programming trick that I saw in one of the included programs in Rapture. In the 03 -Leads folder, there the Lonely Lead.prog. With a Polyphony of 0, the programmer chose to use a healthy amount of Porta Time in the patch. He or she also made the Polyphony perform double-duty. The Multi mode oscillator is enabled, and with a spread of five voices [5v]. But the Detune is set to zero.

    You'd think that this would result in a *neutral* setting. Instead, the five oscillators dance around the stereo field with each successive Note On, creating a panning dispacement that's at once subtle and musically interesting. It sounds almost like a combination of panning & out of phase oscillator techniques. Up the voices to [9v], and toggle to Off, and the differences are readily apparent.

    I keep coming back to the same line again & again: This is one cool (and deep) synth.
    #7
    b rock
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/25 09:46:57 (permalink)
    surprisingly you never asked for a preview of the .prog
    That's because I've been known to be a little stubborn at times. I definitely saw it, and I figure with just a few more X-rays, I'll be able to reconstruct the patch here on my own. No laments; the pics were all great, Chad, if a tad "un-tweak-able". I'm going to bump them for illustrative purposes every chance that I get. It'd be silly not to.
    #8
    lawapa
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/25 20:44:01 (permalink)
    Well I did the trick last night. Where you set detuning to 0 and poly to 0 and porta to 1. Well I took your trick and added some ;)+). I must say it does add something subtle. I had some of my home made stuff up and Well got to adding more. I thought it came out kinda cool.

    I had a question for Chad; I got this cool wave sequence I set up in SoundForge. Now if I just load it up it changes the timming on it as per the norm. I've been rackin my brain how to set this up so that even as you go up scale the timming stays the same. If I were to treat it like a drum loop then I get a tad more range but then I'd get gaps between the wave snippets after a point. I think what I need to do is this. Do an sfz where I set loops points for each change. I then just keep refering to the same file over and over but each region has a loop continuous in a different spot. Then as I streatch this file but playing up the scale the timming would stay the same? Each snippet is about .250 long give or take a few ms. So a ---

    region// sample= sample 1// loop continious 0/250

    region// sample= sample1//sample delay=250// loop continious 250-500

    region// sample=sample1//sample delay=500//loop continious 500-750

    I bet my sintax sucks on this ;)+) But I want to try to pull it off.

    #9
    b rock
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/26 08:10:45 (permalink)
    I won't step on your question for Chad, Larry, but I'll admit that you have me intrigued. I believe that I see a couple of ways to approach this. I'm going to have to try a few things out ...
    Where you set detuning to 0 and poly to 0 and porta to 1. Well I took your trick and added some ;)+).
    I can't lay claim to that one: I stole it like a bad blues lick. But it is an interesting use of Rapture's native feature set with unusual results.

    Here's one that I did come up with on my own, although I'm sure others have discovered this as well. The VelTrack parameter is active, whether or not an EG has been enabled. Let's use that option to detune oscillators in a keyboard-controlled manner with two Pitch EGs.

    In Element 1:
    Pitch EG VelTrack: 5
    In Element 2:
    Pitch EG VelTrack: -5

    You don't even need to turn on the EGs. Lower velocity Note Ons display little or no detuning; higher velocity hits will trigger a spread detune effect. With a little exaggeration (increasing the 'bipolar' VelTrack settings in both EGs), this tip will bring you far past a honky-tonk piano signature. A little goes a long way here, as the detuning 'spread' is the absolute value of the two VelTrack values combined [ |-5 cents + 5 cents| = 10 cent detune ]. Best part: You can vary this dynamically with your controller technique.
    #10
    lawapa
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/26 14:35:24 (permalink)
    Always use samples and not ms? That works. I was trying to do something different but this will rock. I've already started thinking about how I'm gona impliment this ;)+) My only problem is the click and pop thing. But I'll test run this and see what happens. It will rockem sockem if if it works. I think I'll send you the initial prog I started with with a better description of what I'd like to do.

    Brock: I bet that sounds to fat ;)+) humongous in fact.
    #11
    lawapa
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/26 17:03:08 (permalink)
    Yep, When I copy/pasted all my segments I used snap to zero Xing. And to select that part of a file using samples and the loop continuious opcode is not a problem. It's the stop/end after 250ms or xxx samples thats the kicker. While the file will play through at certain notes it might not finish on some and loop several times on others if I set a way for the file to stop at a specified time. Using sample delay will always set my start time precisely it's that stop time I think won't work out.

    In essence I want a window that lasts 250 ms or xxxsamples. In that window I want the file to play just for that amount of time if it has to loop to fill that hole that's ok. Then I want another window of time where another file picks up where the first file left off and so on. You see what I'm getting at. Rythmic synth/sample loops that don't change tempo as they are played up the scale. I've worked out everything except the stop time.
    #12
    lawapa
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/28 11:30:17 (permalink)
    Brock, Chad ;) little update? Using the amp eg and zooming way out plus makeing a set of individual loops for each segment I was able to get a sweep through that will keep time not matter what the pitch. But no repete yet. I'm going back in you guys and if I can will post the result as a rapture patch up on Project 5 later today.
    #13
    lawapa
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/28 12:28:03 (permalink)
    I'm cycling through twice now. I sure do wish I had a short cut to the zoom. But if I use the up/down arrows as I'm setting nodes it changes the level but not the zoom. But just like the wave file I did this cycles through the files but now instead of getting faster the tempo stays put. This rocks but man setting those nodes is a pain. You can't get any precission unless you zoomed but Then it takes forever to get there so you fit. If you could just chrunch the numbers and enter them it be no problem. I'm going for a drum like feel for the change in files. This is my first pass thoungh so I stayed with a consistant beat. The prog and waves is right at 1 mb so the upload won't be bad.
    #14
    b rock
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/28 13:38:15 (permalink)
    You can't get any precission unless you zoomed but Then it takes forever to get there so you fit.
    Larry: the scroll wheel on your mouse. Point yout cursor to where you want the center of zoom to be, and scroll away. Ctrl+scroll slows it down, the "invisible" bar at the bottom moves you left & right, and double-clicking (double-arrow cursor) there brings you back to fit. If you don't have a scroll wheel mouse, there's two other shortcuts on your number pad. Don't quote me on this, but I think that they're "*" and "/".
    #15
    lawapa
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    RE: Synth [CLOT] Zero-Thru Detuning 2006/05/28 14:22:04 (permalink)
    If you had a chance to hear that loop I sent. It's that but It stays on tempo. Man that rocks big time. This is just so cool. I will send this on to you for your sample folder. Yep I got a wheel mouse. And any thing is better that what I was doing. I got so caught up in settin this up I didn't get a chance to try Chad's trick yet but it sounds so cool to set a loop to one note or group and then change it up as you move around the scale. So much to do and so little time. I've got to make up and map out some wave files for this new trick.

    Well the prog is up at P5. Dancin loops. Has about a 2 octive range give or take a few notes before the loops start futzin out ;)

    Hey-all you fence sitters, Rapture rocks, get it, Do it cause it's really good. I said so. If you love tweakin up new sounds this thing has the right stuff. All you patch browsers don't know what your missin.
    post edited by lawapa - 2006/05/28 17:18:55
    #16
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