dali lama
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If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
I'm toying with purchasing a guitar amp simulator. I've heard both raves and total pans about the Pod Pro XT. I have an amp but I find myself using the guitar models from my DR-880 much more because of the volume constraints. Those constraints not subject to change in the near future, I gotta believe there is a better box out there to do amp sims than the drum machine I currently use.
So if the Pod Pro XT isn't the answer, what WOULD get me there. I'm pretty much NOT considering software for this.
Thanks
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ohhey
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 14:53:21
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ORIGINAL: dali lama
I'm toying with purchasing a guitar amp simulator. I've heard both raves and total pans about the Pod Pro XT. I have an amp but I find myself using the guitar models from my DR-880 much more because of the volume constraints. Those constraints not subject to change in the near future, I gotta believe there is a better box out there to do amp sims than the drum machine I currently use.
So if the Pod Pro XT isn't the answer, what WOULD get me there. I'm pretty much NOT considering software for this.
Thanks
The Behringer V-Amp and Pod come in several models it just depends on what you want to spend. I think the POD is over rated, I have an old Johnson J-Station that does all the sounds I need right now but if I were going to get one I think I would start with the Behringer and if that didn't work out send it back and get the POD.
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OffAnAirplane
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 14:54:09
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ORIGINAL: dali lama
I'm toying with purchasing a guitar amp simulator. I've heard both raves and total pans about the Pod Pro XT. I have an amp but I find myself using the guitar models from my DR-880 much more because of the volume constraints. Those constraints not subject to change in the near future, I gotta believe there is a better box out there to do amp sims than the drum machine I currently use.
So if the Pod Pro XT isn't the answer, what WOULD get me there. I'm pretty much NOT considering software for this.
Thanks
As far as I know, the PODxt is the best out there. And the competition is not even in the same league. If you can't afford the PODxt Pro, I would just get the PODxt. It has all the same amp models and effects. The only difference is the amount and type of I/O. But the PODxt has line outs, a USB out and a guitar amp output. What else do you really need? I own a PODxt-Pro, and I wish I had gotten a PODxt instead, because it would do all I need to do, and it would've been much cheaper. I could've got a PODxt and a Bass PODxt for what the PODxt-Pro cost. But I bought mine used on eBay, so at least I didn't pay full price. Plus it already had all the model packs installed, except the bass pack, which I added later. One of things that makes the PODxt so great is that it is so fully customizable. And even if you don't know what you are doing (like I don't) you can go online for free and sample and download free tones that other people have tweaked, and just load them into the PODxt. The tonal possibilities are pretty much limitless. There is a pretty extensive archive of tones that you can download free.
post edited by OffAnAirplane - 2006/06/26 15:18:46
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 15:04:56
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I've got a Pod 2.0 but I really like the sound of the Vox unit. Toneworks?
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yep
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 15:08:54
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Echo what Frank said, with a twist.
There are two kinds of people who pan the pod and its ilk-- one is the type of person who simply doesn't like using a pod. They feel that amp emulators simply cannot capture the sound of a real amplifier, and don't sound as good. They have a point, but you're already past that, since you're already using amp emulation and like it enough to want more.
Most of the second type of people who pan the pod are people who prefer ONE SOUND they get from their other device to the 980 sounds they don't use in the pod. Most guitar players spend 95% of their time using one primary amp sound, maybe two. The ability to get that ONE SOUND is far more important than the ability to get 125 different amp models. The best way to evaluate this is to go to the music store and play with some of them.
Wide-ranging sounds and huge feature sets are of far more value to a studio for hire or to a wedding band or studio musician than to a typical singer/songwriter or creative musician. The pod is kind of a benchmark for its comprehensiveness and versatility, and other amp emulators are often called "PODs" the way that people use trademarks like Band-Aid or Q-tips to refer to broad product categories. If you're running a commercial studio and want that kind of name recognition and easy versatility of sounds, then pod is the way to go. But if you're looking for a little box to create your personal sound, then there's no real way to tell what'll work the best without trying a few.
Cheers.
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OffAnAirplane
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 15:13:25
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Most of the second type of people who pan the pod are people who prefer ONE SOUND they get from their other device to the 980 sounds they don't use in the pod. Most guitar players spend 95% of their time using one primary amp sound, maybe two. The ability to get that ONE SOUND is far more important than the ability to get 125 different amp models. The best way to evaluate this is to go to the music store and play with some of them. But in the case of a person who has a studio in which many different guitar players (with many different tastes in guitar tones) record there, the POD gives you the flexibility of finding many different tones for many different guitarists. And in my case, it's not that I think the POD sounds as good or better than the real thing. It's that I can't afford the real thing. And even if I could, I don't have the right room or mics to get as good of a tone as the POD easily gets. Even if I could afford one great amp and cab, I couldn't afford to have as many as are represented in the POD.
post edited by OffAnAirplane - 2006/06/26 15:25:49
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
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lazarous
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 15:22:33
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The Behringer V-Amp and Pod come in several models it just depends on what you want to spend. I think the POD is over rated, I have an old Johnson J-Station that does all the sounds I need right now but if I were going to get one I think I would start with the Behringer and if that didn't work out send it back and get the POD. Hey, Frank! I have the Johnson J-Station as well as the Pod XT-Live. The Johnson absolutely rocks... we use it all the time, and really like it. The XT-Live gets more respect from people walking in. We had the Behringer V-Amp for a week. If I was a metal guy, it'd be fantastic. Some of the most over the top distortion sounds I've ever heard... I couldn't really get any good clean sounds out of it though. The Pod has some excellent clean tones, as does the J-Station. You can usually beat up a sales guy at Guitar Center to sell the XT-Live for $349 or so... as it's built into a footboard, this seems to be a great deal. We really like ours. Good luck! Corey
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tazman
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 15:28:05
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I used a J-Station for years and loved it. I sold it and bought a PODXT Live so I can also use it in the band I formed. With the J-Station I would have had to buy a pedalboard (expensive) and I was getting worried about the fact that they don't make them anymore. If you don't need a box to play live, I would suggest looking on Ebay for a J-Station. That little box is amazing and usually you can get on for under $100.
I am very happy with my PODXT Live. I bought all the add-on packs and I have a multitude of amps now available to me. I actually have too many of them and as someone else stated I end up using the same 3-5 (mostly it's the same amp with distortion on/offm chorus on/off, etc).
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ohhey
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 15:55:14
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ORIGINAL: lazarous
The Behringer V-Amp and Pod come in several models it just depends on what you want to spend. I think the POD is over rated, I have an old Johnson J-Station that does all the sounds I need right now but if I were going to get one I think I would start with the Behringer and if that didn't work out send it back and get the POD.
Hey, Frank! I have the Johnson J-Station as well as the Pod XT-Live. The Johnson absolutely rocks... we use it all the time, and really like it. The XT-Live gets more respect from people walking in.
We had the Behringer V-Amp for a week. If I was a metal guy, it'd be fantastic. Some of the most over the top distortion sounds I've ever heard... I couldn't really get any good clean sounds out of it though. The Pod has some excellent clean tones, as does the J-Station.
You can usually beat up a sales guy at Guitar Center to sell the XT-Live for $349 or so... as it's built into a footboard, this seems to be a great deal. We really like ours.
Good luck!
Corey
That makes me want a V-Amp now, I use the J-Station or just a preamp and plugins for the clean sounds, all I want a modeler for is the heavy stuff. Humm.. I tried using the Grace 101 and my new players strat with the vintage noiseless pickups dry and it was amazing. Added the plain old cakewalk chorus plugin and got the best clean guitar (with chorus) I've ever heard. I'm starting to trust using plugins for guitar more now.
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yep
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 16:28:29
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ORIGINAL: OffAnAirplane
...But in the case of a person who has a studio in which many different guitar players (with many different tastes in guitar tones) record there, the POD gives you the flexibility of finding many different tones for many different guitarists... Right, which is exactly what I said: ORIGINAL: yep
...Wide-ranging sounds and huge feature sets are of far more value to a studio for hire or to a wedding band or studio musician than to a typical singer/songwriter or creative musician...
And in my case, it's not that I think the POD sounds as good or better than the real thing. It's that I can't afford the real thing. And even if I could, I don't have the right room or mics to get as good of a tone as the POD easily gets. Even if I could afford one great amp and cab, I couldn't afford to have as many as are represented in the POD.
Sure, and there are plenty of people in the same boat-- they want to have the wide variety of sounds but money or sound levels or whatever stand in the way. And there are plenty of people using emulated sounds out of preference. There's definitely a different vibe, and a different kind of responsiveness to playing a real amp vs a pod, but which is better, and how much better is totally a matter of personal taste. A pod is certainly more convenient and less expensive, and many do an admirable job of emulating very costly and hard-to-find amplifiers in unique combinations, and can often deliver a crisper, more "perfect" and professional-sounding recorded tone than many home recordists can get even with a great amplifier. Cheers.
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lazarous
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 16:38:07
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That makes me want a V-Amp now, I use the J-Station or just a preamp and plugins for the clean sounds, all I want a modeler for is the heavy stuff. Humm..
I tried using the Grace 101 and my new players strat with the vintage noiseless pickups dry and it was amazing. Added the plain old cakewalk chorus plugin and got the best clean guitar (with chorus) I've ever heard. I'm starting to trust using plugins for guitar more now. Well there ya go then! Seriously, the blue V-Amp was a snarling little monster. Might be just what you need. I think I paid $80 for it used at a local guitar store. I'm going to have to try taking electrics in direct. Haven't done that yet. Corey
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zungle
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/26 18:10:54
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I've owned POD Pro 2.0, Pod ProXT, Sansamp GT2, Red Box Pro and II, Vox Tonelab, Digitech RP200, (and some others) and still own and use ART DST 830, Vampire Combo and V-Amp Pro.
For actual analog sounding modeling (or not so refined and processed or FX)
I recommend V-Amp Pro.....
I have been able to realistically recreate 10 times as many guitar tones with V-Amp than the POD series.
For me............... Once I learned...... ALL ......of the ins and outs of the Behringer V-Amp Pro, it became almost all I ever use. The fx are so, so, but the analog and digital cab sim are good. Its funny, I read from another post the cleans aren't that great, but thats exactly what I first bought it for. The POD stuff just never sounded natural. You can get incredibly natural real sounding cleans from this unit. And yes the high gain stuff is real strong.
If you plug it in and go with presets you may think..... ah...... just another modeler.
Heres a couple tips.......
1. Software interface is a MUST..... only then can you tap its potential.
2. Get familiar with Global and channel EQ.
3. Get familiar with input potentiometer it can really have influence on distortion or cleans........ as it can bring in some soft clipping.
4. V-Amp has serial FX loop( this is awsome) inserting a good EQ or compressor here will give you even more tonal control.
5. V-Amp accepts stomp boxes on front end better than any of my previous modelers. I sometimes use Tubescreamer or BadMonkey.
6. Use the presence sparingly if at all.
Lastly, If your trying out modelers don't make the common mistake of judging any modelers sounds outside of the mix. Audition guitar models within a mix(Drums,Bass, Keys whatever) The main strength of the V-Amp stuff is the ability to sit naturally in the mix with other instruments. I was forever getting good sounds from PODXT Pro, only to have them not sit within the mix (at all)
I know I'm rambling and I know Behringers up and down rep......But for under $200.00 the V-Amp Pro is a steal.
Hope this helps and good luck.
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CapnSpanky
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/29 14:10:34
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It all comes down to how picky you are about your sound. I have had a PodXT Pro for several years now. I thought people who bashed Pods were gear snobs and it p!ssed me off. But after a lot of critical listening, I realized they were right. Every digital modler I've ever heard intoduces digital aliasing and smearing to create its' overdrive and tube distortion. I've gotten so I can't tolerate that sound in my guitar recordings. It's ok for practicing and maybe gigging. The quality of distortion and overdrive sounds produced by a quality analog path (preferably a tube path) is so much better than digital modelers. In 99% cases that means using an decent amp and maybe some good quality stomp boxes. I wanted to be able to record direct,so I got a Damage Control Womanizer. It sounds pretty good... about twice as good as my Podxt Pro, IMO. When it comes to music gear, quality always beats quantity in my book. For me, that mean my overdrive and distortion sounds are analog. Sorry but modeling still hasn't gotten there. Flame suit on! 
Tim Wells ------- Cap'n Spanky From the Planet Screwball
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zungle
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/29 17:12:06
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Your right on the mark with digital aliasing. Since my stuff isn't too critical I've dealt with it. With a little work, some of the digital artifacts can be minimized with a decent EQ.
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OffAnAirplane
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/29 18:26:19
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ORIGINAL: CapnSpanky
The quality of distortion and overdrive sounds produced by a quality analog path (preferably a tube path) is so much better than digital modelers. In 99% cases that means using an decent amp and maybe some good quality stomp boxes. I wanted to be able to record direct,so I got a Damage Control Womanizer. It sounds pretty good... about twice as good as my Podxt Pro, IMO.
Don't most stomp boxes use digital processing the same way the POD fx do? Of course the modeling is different, but I would think the POD fx wouldn't sound any "less real" than any other stomp box fx. It all comes down to how picky you are about your sound. I have had a PodXT Pro for several years now. I thought people who bashed Pods were gear snobs and it p!ssed me off. But after a lot of critical listening, I realized they were right.
Every digital modler I've ever heard intoduces digital aliasing and smearing to create its' overdrive and tube distortion. I've gotten so I can't tolerate that sound in my guitar recordings. It's ok for practicing and maybe gigging. What about taking a PODxt into a good quality solid-state amp, and just mic the amp? That way you still get powerful feel, and the room acoustics, but you retain the versatility of the POD. Just a thought. Possibly a bad one. 
post edited by OffAnAirplane - 2006/06/29 18:38:51
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
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Middleman
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/29 18:41:12
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The best all in one I have used and still have for that matter is the Genesis3. They no longer make them but I've found it does a remarkable job with effects and amp sim. Distortion however was just as bad if not worse than the Pod XT. Too buzzy sounding. I use external pedals for this.
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Rev. Jem
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/29 23:23:37
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Every digital modler I've ever heard intoduces digital aliasing and smearing to create its' overdrive and tube distortion. I'd never realised that was how it's achieved. Do you have a link to verify/explain this ?
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zungle
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/30 00:52:41
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OffAnAirplane..... I think your on to something.
I have noticed or felt most of the digital artifacts are introduced in the cab and speaker sims not the pre-amp sims. My V-Amp Pro works really well in front of most guitar amps, so long as all the cab and speaker modeling is off. The distortions are as good as most of the stomps I have or do own.
I've also noticed the digital artifacts are alot more previlent when recording @ 16/44.1 and become less noticeable at higher bit and sampling rates.(24/48 or better). probably because of the trucation issues.
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CapnSpanky
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/06/30 09:41:03
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ORIGINAL: OffAnAirplane
Don't most stomp boxes use digital processing the same way the POD fx do?
Of course the modeling is different, but I would think the POD fx wouldn't sound any "less real" than any other stomp box fx.
Good point. A lot of the pedals you see at Guitar Center, like Boss and Line 6 do have some digital processing. Companies like FULLTONE and VOODOO LABS sell all analog stomp boxes. There are a lot more.
What about taking a PODxt into a good quality solid-state amp, and just mic the amp?
That way you still get powerful feel, and the room acoustics, but you retain the versatility of the POD.
Just a thought. Possibly a bad one.
Hmmm. IMHO, it's like trying to polish a turd. (no offence  ) Believe me, I know how convenient and flexible the POD is. But I imagine you could get a wide variety of tones with a decent little tube amp and a couple of pedals. I'm not trying to trash the Pod or similar products. I’ve gotten a lot of use out of mine and I was content with the tone for a while. I think that inevitably some of us will out grow our digital modelers and I guess I'm going through that phase now. Peace
Tim Wells ------- Cap'n Spanky From the Planet Screwball
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SteveD
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/02 00:38:30
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I've got a Pod XT Pro as well as a great amp and cab... and a couple of combos too.  I like them all for different reasons. Lately I've been using a Palmer PGA 04 ADIG-LB.  It's used by Satriani, Van Halen, Kieth Richards, and others. Don't think they use Pods... It's not an amp simulator... but a cab simulator with an 8 ohm load. It can handle 200 watts of warmed up / cranked up tube sound from the speaker output jacks of any guitar amp and pass that rich sound to the DAW in a very controlled way. Just the right amount of signal for the DAW, but with all the attitude and warmth of a great sounding amp half way through the night of a sizzling performance at your favorite concert hall. Plenty of gain to make those tubes sing, without the police at the front door. And the most important feature... it still sounds like YOU playing through YOUR amp. 
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axe
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/08 18:00:23
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Interesting thread and I would be most interested in patches for the V-AMP Pro as I have never been able to coax a high gain tone even close to what I get from a PODxt on my Bass V-Amp Pro (it seems to have the guitar stuff also). Also surprised to hear the perceived problems with the PODxt or any of the modelers and digital artifacts. It would be rather difficulty to distinguish PODxt from analog setup in a final production. Before you hop on the I can tell soapbox, there were some guys that got rather embarrassed when someone submitted a PODxt clip masquerading as a mic'd Tube Amp and the Tube snobs (of which I am one) loved it. Then got really pissed off when the truth was disclosed. This is MOST interesting : Palmer PGA 04 ADIG-LB, thanks for the link. As mentioned, the modelers will produce the best recorded tracks that most project studio guys are going to get. Now I love playin through a cranked tube amp but it seems no one else in the general vicinity cares for it ;) AXE
post edited by axe - 2006/07/08 18:12:25
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oddboy
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/25 10:24:29
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Hi there,
HAve you thought about software sims?
I've just got Guitar rig 2 from native instruments and it is wicked. Effects akimbo and many amp models. I use this and occasionally mic up a little 5W valve amp if I want feedback at volumes that won't kill me or my wife or my neighbours or the street or the town......
A friend of mine swears by his POD but it sounds kind of POD'esque which can be a problem IMHO.
Oddly,
Oddboy
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dali lama
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/27 12:53:24
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Well, actually I did have a question about software sims. Can you track with these things and not be undone by latency? Or do you have to track dry and THEN apply the sim?
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oddboy
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/27 13:34:10
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I've been able to use Guitar rig 2 as a stand alone and as aplugin in the FX bin on a track on a less than cutting edge setup. It uses something called re-amping so that the original recording is the guitar clean and this is effected on each pass until you decide you want to apply the effect. Pretty much what happens now with audio in Sonar so that ir's none destructive.
One of the main problems I've found with recording guitar with effects, particularly overdrive, fuzz and distortion is that the guitar sometimes sounds wrong in a recording usign the same live sounds and these need to be tinckerred with the to get the guitar to sit right. If you record the guitar with the overdrive then you're stuck with it.
I'm a huge fan of software in recording but I'm analogue and valves pretty much throughout my set up live.
Oddly,
Oddboy
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zungle
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/27 14:01:44
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If configured correctly both the V-Amp Pro and POD XT offer re-amping capability. (Recording dry while monitoring wet. ) Of course auditioning and edits must be done in real time.
post edited by zungle - 2006/07/27 14:14:43
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Sonico
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/27 18:09:54
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I'am very happy with my POD XT Live, it's perfect for my kind of music and nobody has ever
told that my recorded guitar sounds are too digital or something like that.
And if that wasn't enough, about three months ago Line 6 came with a free update (firmware version 3)
with 5 or 6 new models (a lovely orange in there) several wah models and other effects and the ability
to buy a bass model pack and make your POD XT a guitar and bass POD XT, that is amazing.
I don't care if it doesn't sound exactly like a real tube amp as long as I manage to get very good and
variated sounds (wich I think is the case) I'am very happy with it!!
Did I mention the posibility to record a keeper trak at 2:00 a.m. and not disturbing my family or neighboors?
Good luck!!!
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Blades
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/28 00:59:47
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If you are only going to use it for home and not gigging, you could check out the Toneport series from Line6. This sort of meets in the middle between hardware and software, as it has all the ins and outs for your guitar, bass, mic, whatever, and does all the processing via the CPUI (but not as a plugin yet - end of the year). It would give you good options for vocal, guitar and bass preamps, and amp models.
Just a thought.
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Thomas Campitelli
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/29 09:11:58
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I use a POD version 2 (then one before the xt). I really like it. I notice no digital smearing and I would be very surprised if anyone would listen to my recordings and say, "That's a modeller." Why not get a VAmp and a POD and return the one that you like less? By the way, if you want to do reamping, you probably need a dedicated direct box and a POD (or equivalent).
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Kevin Kascak
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RE: If not the Pod Pro xt, then what?
2006/07/29 12:03:24
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The Pods work great. I still use a Pod Pro 2 for guitar and a Bass Pod Pro for bass. One thing I think some people overlook when using the Pods is that you shouldn't just think you only plug in and use the presets but you should do some experimenting.
If this was a guitar amp...you would try other Fx, alter the input level (compressors and pedals), try different mikes and also different pickup on your guitars. I use MicModeler to try different mics, Fx plugins and pedals and even a little DBX 163 to compress the input signal a little on the input. The Pods (version 2 and XT) offer you a great baseline to start with with and amp simulater. Just don't forget to try offer ways of manipulating the signal to really get some good sounds
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