New to Recording: Confused with a technique

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Skylar20
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2006/06/30 13:19:53 (permalink)

New to Recording: Confused with a technique

Hi, im new to this forum. I'm really interested in getting into digital recording and I have been reading up on some different techniques, but getting confused on some ideas.

I saw a picture on a website explaining the use of mixers with the preamps built in. Well, it had arrows symbolizing cables coming out of the back of the mixer and next to the arrows it had 4 drum mics (ex: snare, bass, overhead 1, overhead 2) and it also showed 4 more arrows coming out of the back of the mixer saying like guitar, bass, vocals. In the front of the mixer, the picture showed 4 arrows pointing towards something called an audio interface. I don't understand what an audio interface is, how the arrows (cables) connect to the audio interface, and where the cable plug into the front of the mixer.

Also, the picture showed 2 other arrows (cables again i'm guessing) going from the front of the mixer as well into something called a power amp. Again, I'm not sure what this is. From the power amp, 2 more arrows go into 2 monitors.

I hope you guys understand the picture I am trying to describe. So if someone can just explain to me - what is an audio interface, where do you plug those 4 arrows in; where from the mixer, do those 4 cables supporting the drum mics going into the audio interface come from (what is the name of the slot you plug the cables in, in both the mixer and the audio interface?), also what is the power amp and where do you connect the mixer to get them into the power amp then to the monitors?

I know this may be a little difficult to get what i'm asking, so here is the picture I am talking about...http://www.kevinkemp.com/homerecordingtutorial/mixer_and_preamps.htm

just scroll down and you will find the picture about half way through the page.

If you can help me at all to understand digital recording, i will greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!
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    ohhey
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/06/30 14:50:19 (permalink)
    If you are having problems understanding that web page and diagrams then you should keep your setup as simple as possible. It takes some skill and years of experiance to hook up audio gear no matter if you are recording or not. The first thing to understand is that the sound card (interface) that comes with most computers does not have very good quality sound when recording and in most cases can only record one or two things at once. So most folks who record need a better one with enough inputs to record what they need to record.

    Since you are at a beginner level it would be best for you to get an audio interface that has the connections you need for microphones and guitars so there are no extra pieces or cables to hook up that you could get wrong. They are available in both USB and Firewire and can attach to any computer with one of those connections. Some look like mixers but have a computer connection and others are just a small box with a few controls on the front. With a devcie like that all you would need is one wire from the device to the computer and one wire from the instrument or microphone to the audio interface. Some wires can be expensive so this also cuts the cost of getting everything you need to get started. It's also less of a mess and lets you keep your mind on making music and learning the software rather then trying to figure out what you hooked up wrong.

    By the way Cakewalk now offers a system with the software and the interface you need all in one box. If you only need to record a one or two things at once and can afford a system like this it would be a good way to get started.

    http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--CAKSPS250
    post edited by ohhey - 2006/06/30 15:03:54
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    Skylar20
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/06/30 16:08:51 (permalink)
    Thanks!

    That program is definitely in my price range, but i looked at the interface box in the picture through your link and it only shows one or two input areas for guitar or a mic. How would I use this to record a full drum kit then? Wouldn't i need at least around four input areas for mics to run through to mic my drums? I am definitely going to need at least 4 to 5 input areas, but would be more comfortable with around six to ten. (just in case i want to do any live recording) So, that program looks great, but is there anything similar that fits my needs better? Thanks again!
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    Skylar20
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/06/30 20:45:44 (permalink)
    I just had an idea, but because i'm pretty new to the whole recording deal, maybe someone can please throw me in the right direction. Well, in my previous post I discuss how the cakewalk system brought up by OHHEY doesn't really meet my needs; however, would it be possible to hook up say a mackie mixer to the cakewalk audio interface by running a cable through each and into my computer so I get 12 inputs instead of only 2??? (now i can record my drum tracks or my guitar/vocal tracks or both at the same time) Is this a possibility or am I way off track? Please respond if you know anything at all about my struggle.
    post edited by Skylar20 - 2006/06/30 20:56:27
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    Skylar20
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/07/01 12:13:58 (permalink)
    Can someone please fill me in here? I know a lot of people are looking at my posts, but for some reason are not helping me out. Whatever anyone can do to help me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
    #5
    dmassey
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/07/01 20:55:21 (permalink)
    I think I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't know what your budget range is. In simple terms:

    You need an audio interface that will allow you to connect as many channels as you want to record separately at one time. If you want to record the drums with 4 mics, but only want a stereo recording, then you would need an external mixer (Mackie, Yamaha, Alesis, etc) and an interface with at least 2 line-level inputs. If you want to record more channels separately, you will need a more complicated (and costly) set-up.

    More importantly, what is your level of knowledge or experience? Do you know your way around a mixer, or microphones? What are you planning to record? A whole band, or only you and the PC? All these things will have an impact on what advice you will recieve from those of us on this forum.

    Don't give up, just keep asking (and answering) questions.
    #6
    Skylar20
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/07/01 21:13:12 (permalink)
    First off, thanks for trying to help me out here.

    I have a few questions in response to your post.

    1. What is a "stereo recording"?
    2. If I use an external mixer, how do the 2 line-level inputs from the interface connect to the mixer? (From where to where)
    3. What would the difference in products I would need to buy if I wanted to record a full live band using up to 10 mics rather than 1 instrument at a time?

    To answer your questions:

    I have a pretty low knowledge of recording - besides using an 8-track/mixing with cheap programs/recording in a legit studio with my band

    I am planning to record by myself or with my brother, BUT it would be nice to be able to do live band recordings with my band as well (thats why I am wondering the difference in products whether with a live band or 1 or 2 man)

    I play a lot of different styles of music - ex: rock, acoustic, jazz, blues -- i don't do rap or pop music

    As for my budget range - I really don't have a specific range, I just want to get this right the first time, so I am fine with paying a bit more for higher quality products. So I'm very flexible.

    post edited by Skylar20 - 2006/07/01 21:26:30
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    dmassey
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/07/02 21:55:02 (permalink)
    There are a number of publications that can give you in-depth info on all sorts of topics, but in a nutshell:

    A stereo recording is the standard format for most audio. There are 2 discrete channels of audio, typically referred to as Right and Left.

    The "Line Outputs" on your mixer would plug in to the "Line Inputs" on your audio interface.

    You can record as many channels as you like with a mixer BUT you have to have an audio interface that will DISCRETELY record as many channels as you wish to process independently after the initila recording process. If you wish to do a "live" recording without the ability to "mix" it later, then you only need two inputs into your computer, Left and Right.
    If you want to be able to mix in the computer, you need an audio interface with more inputs. Let's say you want to record drums (4 mics mininum) guitars (2 mics/line inputs) bass (1 input) and lead vocal (1 mic input). You could do this with an 8-input audio interface. You would need either an interface with mic preamps or you would need separate mic pre-amps, OR a mixer with mic preamps and inserts or direct outputs. Confused yet? If so, get a couple of books about basic audio recording.

    Gotta go, got chicken on the grill. Good luck.
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    Skylar20
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/07/02 23:50:02 (permalink)
    hey, thanks for helping me out again.

    You answered basically all the basic questions i had about digital recording.
    I'm going to pick up some books on recording and hopefully I'll be recording very soon.
    Maybe I'll even be back here sharing my recordings in the future.

    #9
    Internalized Sun
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    RE: New to Recording: Confused with a technique 2006/07/24 15:03:34 (permalink)
    Another thing you need to be aware of is your recording environment! By recording environment I am talking about the room or rooms where you will place microphones, guitar amps, drums etc...
    This is important as when you do live recordings, in eg. the same room, any sound that can be picked up by any microphone WILL be picked up by ALL those microphones (this is called bleeding sound - as the sound from eg. a guitar will "bleed" into the microphone on the bass, the hihat, the cymbals etc.).
    Bleeding sounds will almost always occur when recording drums - when kicking the kickdrum the snare will shake, when hitting the hihat it can be heard on the track with the snare drum and so on.. - no matter what...
    The trick is to place the microphones best as possible to get the best recording.
    And this is OK - however - many times having guitars and bass and vocals bleeding withing each other can cause real problems when if you later decide to redo just 1 of them... the old take will still be heard on all (almost) the other tracks and thus cannot be completely redone.
    This is where multitrack recording becomes interesting, because you do not have to record everything at the same time...
    It is completely possible (and widely used) to record each instrument and vocals one by one on its own - that is sort of compositing or layering the band - the drummer plays for himself (do give him a metronome or a click of some sort to play along to), then the bass, then the guitar(s)... heck maybe even let the band record the song live and then record the drums, the bass, the guitars, vocals etc. afterwards - this sometimes brings the "swing" back into the perfomances even though they are playing all by themselves...
    And to the point I was coming to...:
    If you do composited/layered recording then you only need a number of inputs as the max number of microphones required by the most complex instrument - that is probably the drums - 2 overhead microphones, and one microphone per kit piece... perhaps a total of 8 or 9 - don't just jump at getting the highest number you can get - you will have to pay big bucks for that - and it is completely unnecessary..

    Well, that was my 2 cents - I hope it helps!
    Dennis P

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