reverse effects

I have a need to do a reverse echo effect in a track I'm working on and haven't been able to figure it out yet. I'm still learning this software stuff, so I figure its most likely something I'm missing, but is there an easy way to do this? The only way I've figured out is to split my clip so that the piece I need the effect on is a separate clip, then apply reverse audio, apply echo to the clip, then reverse it again.... but I'm afraid to try it because I just know I'll end up destroying the whole clip and my backups won't restore and an asteroid will hit the Earth!!!!

Any clever ideas? how about not-so-clever ones that are better than what I came up with?

thanks

ORIGINAL: serauk

I have a need to do a reverse echo effect in a track I'm working on and haven't been able to figure it out yet. I'm still learning this software stuff, so I figure its most likely something I'm missing, but is there an easy way to do this? The only way I've figured out is to split my clip so that the piece I need the effect on is a separate clip, then apply reverse audio, apply echo to the clip, then reverse it again.... but I'm afraid to try it because I just know I'll end up destroying the whole clip and my backups won't restore and an asteroid will hit the Earth!!!!

Any clever ideas? how about not-so-clever ones that are better than what I came up with?

thanks

Do you really want to reverse the audio? To reverse the amplitude envlope of the repeat try using a gate, and reverse the envelope control so it clamps tight up front then releases. Most free pligin gates will give you about a second or so of release time. You could probably also do it with manual volume control... think Steve Howe and "Soon"

Thanks folks - I'll give it a shot tonight - it just seemed like I've seen an effect somewhere that does reverse-echo - what I'm looking for is something like the vocal verse intros in Black Sabbath's Megalomania track (I know, I know, move into the 21st century, I get that a lot, can I help it that I liked the 70s?)

ORIGINAL: serauk

Thanks folks - I'll give it a shot tonight - it just seemed like I've seen an effect somewhere that does reverse-echo - what I'm looking for is something like the vocal verse intros in Black Sabbath's Megalomania track (I know, I know, move into the 21st century, I get that a lot, can I help it that I liked the 70s?)

IIrc, OhmBoyz did have couple of presets ... but, maybe not as good as you would like to find - http://www.kvraudio.com/get/576.html

Also, TobyBear has least two plugins called RevDelay and DelayDevil (incl. in MonsterBag) that maybe can do the reversing - http://www.tobybear.de/p_monsterbag.html

Other:

q_delOizer - http://home.datacomm.ch/andr/qplugins/
yaledelay - http://www.blackstonesoftware.com/ (site seems to be under construction)

Junski

... and another time try what Pat Hamm suggests. It's quick, neat, easy ... and does the job well.

ORIGINAL: glazfolk

... and another time try what Pat Hamm suggests. It's quick, neat, easy ... and does the job well.

Having my son (the guitarist) living in the house and sharing the studio made me instantly aware of what serauk probably meant by "reverse echo". A couple weeks ago he went on-and-on about needing a Boss DD-6 stompbox to do reverse delay "like Jimmy Page used to do in the 70s". I had no idea what he was talking about until after he brought the DD-6 home and showed me. I then let him listen to "Soon" (because this is the most readily available exagerated version of the effect of which I am aware), and explained that all Howe was doing was reversing the attack using either a volume pedal or the volume knob on his guitar BEFORE an Echoplex. Then I showed him how you could automate the effect with controling the envelope of a gate before it gets sent into a delay. The thing is that the only thing that gets reversed is the envelope of the attack. Everything still goes in the same direction as the original signal.

Process(i think)--->Audio----->Reverse.

I do this (for quicky fx) on a number of effect w/verb. I always keep a copy of the original, and turn the verb up to 100% on the backward channel; that way I can mix the effect ot taste after the fact.

Check out the song "Wandering" in my sig at about 3:05 for a pretty exaggerated use of this.

However

ORIGINAL: mosspa

ORIGINAL: mlockett
Check out the song "Wandering" in my sig at about 3:05 for a pretty exaggerated use of this.

Mike,

I checked out your tune. I like the vibe. However, the effect you mention is not what serauk was looking for. See my post about 5 up for a description of the "reverse echo/delay" effect. The only thing that is reversed is the amplitude envelope of the signal going into the delay. Nothing in the frequency domain is reversed.

That's cool. Sometimes I'm not totally clear on what a person is attempting to accomplish. Verbalizing these things is (and understanding them) can be a tricky process... to borrow an expression... it's like dancing about architecture. :-)

Gee guys - this turned out to be an interesting topic - but yeah the actual effect I was originally going for was more along the lines of an echo that starts quiet and ends up at 'normal' volume. And doing the cut and paste method certainly works, although tedious and scary, because of the odd things that have happened to my computer (and backups) over the last few months. But it turns out that after I looked at the track some more (its a vocal part) the less sure I was that was really the effect I wanted. It turned out using a delay fx with a gate and a volume envelope gave me exactly what I wanted (but didn't know I needed)...

Again, appreciate all of the comments and suggestions - one of the things I like best about Sonar is this forum...

Interesting. I just mixed a tune that did something close to what you're saying.

+ I copied the clip to a new track, dragged it BACKWARD in time a quarter note (that is, earlier in time).

+ Then I sent it to a delay, with the send set to PRE fader.

+ Then I turned the fader all the way down. This way the track acts more like a trigger.
The delay leads into the original, untouched vocal track, and I have total control by moving the trigger track around. VOILA!

Who loves ya, baby?

That's a great idea, wicked. So it sounds like serauk wanted an anticipatory delay. If that's it, then I like your technique. But as with most things, there are about 100 ways to skin that cat. For instance, you should be able to also accomplish it by placing the delay right in the FX bin of what you call the 'trigger track', with the delay mixed 100% wet.

You can also get the effect of anticipating delay with one track only, by putting the delay in the FX bin of the original track, with the delay mixed louder than dry. Move the clip(s) backward to where you want the 'pre' delay to be, and adjust the delay for where you want the 'front' sound to be. In this case, the 'dry' sound of the delay is the pre-delay, and the 'wet' sound of the delay is the new 'dry' sound. (A little confusing, sorry if not clear.) This method saves a track, but is just harder to control than the 'trigger track' method, as you can easily add automation to the trigger track to control delay and level of the pre-delay only, without affecting the 'dry' portion. Note to self: trigger track.

ORIGINAL: ...wicked
Oh yeah, I reckon you could. The reason I have it on a send is because I'm using that delay bus for several regular tracks as well, sorry to complicate the signal chain!

That's the beauty of buses. In your case, it would have been more complicated to add delays to the various tracks. Unless, of course, you wanted to have different delays for each of them. I guess what I mean is, it depends on the particular situation whether the signal chain is more or less complicated, one way or the other!

Depending on your delay, you can get the swell effect too. Waves Supertap, for example, let's you set your levels for each tap discreetly. So, your fourth and fifth taps can be louder than your first, second, and thirds, so the delay gets louder as it repeats.

Multitap delay... right. You know, you can kludge a multitap with a bunch of single-taps, each on their own bus. Another neater, but less-flexible way is to cascade two or more delays, then play with the mix and feedback settings. You can get some wild syncopated multitap-sounding stuff with just two or three delays that way. Then there's stereo delay... and surround delay... (!)