sideshow fresh
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New DAW Considerations
Hi everybody. Been a reader of this forum for a few months now and appreciate the education. "The more I learn, the less I know" has never rung truer since I first logged in here. I've been a Sonar 2.2 and 4 user for about three years now (amid a brief flirtation with PT) and am ready to buy my first dedicated DAW. Amazingly, I have achieved adequate results from the beginning with my HP Pavilion Pent IV desktop that I also use for internet and office use. I know... It's time. My usage tends to be band projects that include up to 8 drum tracks and usually several guitar overdubs that get stripped away at mixdown. Plug ins are currently bundled items like Sonitus and Timeworks. I also plan to use more softsynths for drum/piano/organ, but I assume no more than 3 per project. I sketch guitar ideas with a BOSS GT-6 modeling pedal board, so modeling software is unnesessary. Since I currently use a MOTU 828 mkII firewire with Cue Mix, latency has not been an issue for tracking/overdubs (I monitor with a Furman headphone distribution system through an analog board). Using more softsynths would probably create latency issues with the current setup. I also use some outboard gear during mixdown. So, based on the many threads I've read here on the subject, I had pretty much set on having ADK build me a Sonar DAW with AMD 64x2 4200 for about $1800 with a few add ons. I figured I could stay at 32-bit for now and upgrade to Sonar 5 and Windows 64 later. Then came the news - fiance is pregnant. There goes the drum room. Since I'm a consultant with a varying income flow, I also have to re-assess the cost of the new gear (the Rosetta 800 is DEFINITELY out!). The one question I can't seem to answer definitively is what part of the DAW's performance will suffer if I were to spend about half that amount on an off-the-shelf computer with the same basic specs - something like another HP (see http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HP-Pavilion-Media-Center-TV-PC-M7560N-/sem/rpsm/oid/154139/catOid/-12962/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do). I understand the proposed solution was not designed for recording music but, again, what will the actual difference be and is it worth the extra $900 for my usage? I think getting good performance with my 3-yr old, outdated, low RAM HP has spoiled me, and I've only been able to absorb so much information about the technical aspect of DAWS. One more note - I believe I have the knowledge and capability of running the current computer in synch with the new one, at times, to take off some of the load. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions. Thanks,
Doug SONAR 4, MOTU 828 mkII, Genelec 1031a, Yamaha NS-10m, Focusrite Red 1, Manley Vari-Mu "Spalding, get your foot off the boat!"
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kfischer
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/12 20:25:52
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It's all about the synths and plug-ins. Any of today's fast machines (like the HP) will stand up to a very heavy load. If you take the OS and turn off all the garbage shipped on a home PC (sound, accelerators, video-game nonsense, network) then what you've described will hardly make a decent PC breathe hard.
I have a dedicated DAW about two years old now, a Sweetwater-built unit. (see specs at website in signature) and the only way I can really bog it down is with dozens of plugins and Gigastudio all at once.
While there's no doubt the music-specific PC will be faster - I don't think the difference warrants the cash nor will it hobble your recording. You can always temporarily disable plugins, bounce to tracks, etc. It's easy to get around CPU loads.
My .02
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jcschild
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/12 20:32:35
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HI Doug, the link wont work, i noticed the word media center in the link. thats a nono! it sounds as if your needs are fairly light. chances are an off the shelf computer would be fine. things to look out for. chipset is all important cant stress this enough Nforce 4 (without UADs) Intel 955/975 some have good luck with ATI/Uli but try at your own risk. NO onboard video (intergrated) ability to add a minium of 2 Sata drives (or IDE) alot of cheap off the shelf computers are very limited in the ability to add to or upgrade and tend to have very very low powered power supplies which would die with added drives. firewire chipset can be an issue but most will work. Via seems fine lately. and of course TI chipset is prefered. on a side note do not buy anything from Circuit city. buy an HP (for amd) or a Dell for Intel if you must buy a consumer grade Computer. Scott ADK FYI you better marry that girl! another thought would be to save your money and buy a purpose built DAW, rather than limited yourself... if you are indeed getting by with what you have now.
post edited by jcschild - 2006/07/12 20:55:17
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yep
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/12 21:36:56
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Well, you can't get better advice than what you got from Scott--you said you were planning to buy purpose-made DAW from the guy, and he comes in and tells you that you could get by with an off-the-shelf machine and tells you what to shop for!
I second what he said about chipset being critical, and a big power supply. The prime advantages to buying a system from Scott (ADK) or another dedicated DAW builder are likely to be quietness (which you can get by building or buying a machine with a quiet case, power supply, and hard drives), and a system that is known to cooperate well with audio (which you can get by following Scott's prescription).
One other piece of advice is to try and start with a plain-jane Microsoft Windows installation disk. A lot of OEM computers (HP, IBM, Dell, emachines, etc) do not come with a "clean" version of windows, but rather with a modified OEM version on a "restore disk" that usually includes a lot of junkware and often strange security and system modifications that are not always very DAW-friendly. There are rumors that if you ask for one, they have to give you a plain windows disk, but I have no idea if that's true or how you'd go about it. You can also use an already licenced Win XP CD from a friend and just use the windows serial # that came with your computer's OEM version to install, perfectly safe, and perfectly legal. Either way, I think it's worth it, even if you have to cough up $100 for one.
Cheers.
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sideshow fresh
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/13 15:30:13
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Wow. Thanks guys. Now I can focus my research on the issues you raised - particularly learn more about chipsets. My initial findings are that I will not find the appropriate chipset, avoid inegrated video, and avoid Windows Media by buying from a store or by buying a "ready to ship" unit from HP (at least not for $900). All desktops I've seen with the Athlon 64 come w/ Windows Media. Additionally, most are limited to a 300w power supply, which I deduce to be about 100w shy of my needs. Customizing a unit at the HP website (w/ Windows Home) seems to put me at about $1,100 minimum and doesn't solve the power supply issue. I'm also guessing it doesn't guarantee the right chipset, but I need to learn more about that still.
Scott, can you clarify why I might avoid Circuit City if I happen to find the right unit in-store?
I'll be back after I research your issues and will have a final semi-intelligent question or two before final decision. Thanks again, kfischer, yep, and especially Scott. Giving me advice counter to your short term interests did not go unnoticed. I won't forget it. And, by the way, the wedding was already scheduled for May '07. But that's now a shotgun wedding with Dick Cheney aim, so we're giving thought to moving it up. Any woman that allows 2/3 of the bedrooms in the house to be a studio deserves whatever she wants.
Peace.
Doug SONAR 4, MOTU 828 mkII, Genelec 1031a, Yamaha NS-10m, Focusrite Red 1, Manley Vari-Mu "Spalding, get your foot off the boat!"
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/13 20:33:52
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beyond echoing what others have said, if you are going to use a lot of heavy soft synths i'd suggest making cpu your priority. if you can get a gig of ram that would be good, and a couple hard drives. you should be able to find something decent for less than a grand.
as for windows, as yep said, try to get a fresh install. i've never gotten an hp but a friend of mine got an hp laptop for his wife and it came preloaded with tons of crap and the "install" cd was basically an image of windows + the crap. i haven't purchased a dell in the last four months but last time i did (for my former employer, who i finally convinced to ditch the dimensions and get optiplexes) they at least separated the windows cd from the crap cds.
if you decide to go with a consumer machine consider the dell precision workstation (budget ones start around $800-900). they don't come preloaded with crap and their power supplies are way better than the budget dimensions. they've got space for 4 hard drives and there are four dimm sockets (budget dimensions only have two), and they don't come loaded with crap (they barely have anything beyond minesweeper).
they aren't up to pro-built quality like you could get from adk but i think it'll work fine for an interim solution. i've got a 360 (380 is the latest model) and it's been rock solid. bit noisy under heavy loads but that's what you get for not going pro. i don't know what motherboard they are on now, mine is an intel 875p (couple years old now). whatever you get is bound to be an intel board though.
anyway that's my two cents. =)
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jcschild
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/13 22:45:48
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Hi Doug,
well lets just say i had a bad experiance with CC. they have had several class action suits against them for improper biz.
my first computer eons ago was one in the action. i bought an "open box" which turned out to be a "refurb"
which i only found out later when after numerous problems they gave me a brand new puter. (newer faster etc)
man that was like 94? 93? it had 3.1 on it the new one they gave had 95 on it. LOL
if you buy a new one you may be ok.
you know i just did a quick config on my site of the Sonar only users deal.
$1271 includes a dual core X2 3800, 1gig and 2 drives, dvd-rw
and we have free shipping until the end of the month....
not too far from that HP price. still almost $400 more than the one @ CC. and $400 buys alot of diapers.
"""Any woman that allows 2/3 of the bedrooms in the house to be a studio deserves whatever she wants. """"
buddy that woman is a keeper for sure!
Scott
ADK
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/15 12:35:24
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ORIGINAL: jcschild
well lets just say i had a bad experiance with CC. they have had several class action suits against them for improper biz.
my first computer eons ago was one in the action. i bought an "open box" which turned out to be a "refurb"
which i only found out later when after numerous problems they gave me a brand new puter. (newer faster etc)
man that was like 94? 93? it had 3.1 on it the new one they gave had 95 on it. LOL
if you buy a new one you may be ok.
most people tend to think that buying at a store is a better deal but the reality is it's not. the only plus to going to a best buy or circuit city is instant gratification. buying online simply gives you more options and frankly, better tech support. granted you may get india tech support with dell unless you get one of their support packages, but they've got an online forum and way more resources for solving your own problems than circuit city will. of the four dells i've owned over the past 7 years (two laptops, two workstations) i've had to use tech support exactly once. (laptop in bookbag jumped off the couch onto the floor, had to get a new video card). it wasn't the most pleasant experience but i complicated things by asking for a new lcd screen (not knowing the issue was the video card). in my defense, the external video worked fine but the lcd wasn't backlit so it was an easy mistake to make. the brick and mortar stores have to cut more corners to keep their prices competitive with what's online.
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stevee9c6
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/16 12:21:54
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I bought the Acer E360 @ Circuit city... It was inexpensive. I disabled all the media center crap. I optimized it using guidance I found online. I stuck another gb of Ram in it, a 250 gb SATA HD, and put a three port firewire PCI card in it. It is the AMD XP2 3800 machine and it handles just about anything you can throw at it. This all for way under $1k. I am able to run 16 tracks with multiple effects, compressors, convolution reverbs, Dimension Pro, etc. I am going to take my older P4 2.4 machine and hook it up via FX teleport and put DPRO and all my effects on it. I have nothing against ADK or any of the DAW assemblers. I'm sure they are great. I just think a computer is a computer. My next one I am building myself.
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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lazarous
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/17 15:02:52
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I just think a computer is a computer. I'm here to tell you that just ain't the case. I'm glad you got lucky, but I've had so many things go wrong trying to do audio on cheapie computers that from now on I'm buying them from Scott. Period. Bonus being I don't have to blead inside the computer... dang I'm tired of leaking when I build computers!  The less expensive machines often have VIA chipsets. In my experience, these tend to be problematic for audio hardware. Corey
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/17 18:51:10
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ORIGINAL: lazarous
I just think a computer is a computer.
I'm here to tell you that just ain't the case. I'm glad you got lucky, but I've had so many things go wrong trying to do audio on cheapie computers that from now on I'm buying them from Scott. Period. Bonus being I don't have to blead inside the computer... dang I'm tired of leaking when I build computers!
The less expensive machines often have VIA chipsets. In my experience, these tend to be problematic for audio hardware.
agreed. the cheapo computers work fine for everyday use but once you start to push them they break down. whether it's the cheap power supply, cheap cooling, cheap ram, cheap hard drives or cheap motherboard most people will get bit eventually. i spent the extra money on a high-end dell and so far it's been stable, but it's not quiet under load. the next daw i get will probably be from adk or another pro builder. i think the namebrand pcs work for a first-time daw or hobbyist but anyone who really gets into professional-sounding recording will quickly realize (as i have, and i'm still pretty much a hobbyist) that they don't cut it anymore.
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Kicker
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/17 22:42:52
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ORIGINAL: sideshow fresh
...Since I currently use a MOTU 828 mkII firewire... If you are staying with the 828, you will save tons of headaches by getting a TI chipset on the firewire interface.
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JB1592
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/20 23:04:37
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I've heard a lot of decent things about Ibuypower. I can't vouch for them myself (I'm a tech head, I build my own machines and thus I can't really speak for any manufacturer of complete systems) but several people I know have been happy with the machines they bought from them. While it may be obvious that they are geared more towards building gaming PCs there are some things worth noting: 1) A PC that is properly tuned for good performance in games is a hell of a lot closer to properly tuned for audio than a off the shelf HP. Either way, both are still just a reformat and Windows reinstall away from a clean slate. 2) Their upgrade options are generally MUCH more reasonably priced than the bigger named companies (Dell, HP, etc) They also offer a lot more options than the larger outfits usually do. 3) While most of their cases are rather garish looking monstrosities, their base generic ATX case is rather normal looking beige tower, and the Antec P180 is actually not to off-putting, albeit a bit pricey. 4) They offer your choice of O/S or even no O/S. In other words, they'll sell the same PC with your choice of Windows XP Home, Windows XP Pro, Windows XP Pro x64, Windows XP Media Center Edition, or a blank formatted hard drive that you can install your own O/S on. Whether or not you're willing to buy from a smaller, lesser known outfit is up to you though. Theoretically at least, you get a better PC (speaking in terms of what parts they use) at a better price through them. I don't know that their tech support would measure up to Dell's though, if that concerns you. The main point really is that Dell/HP are not all that is out there. It's tough to find a really good system from either of them, and even harder to find one at a decent price. They tend to do things like only offer Windows XP MCE on their high end machines and other rather unfriendly choices. They also don't typically offer upgraded power supplies, your choice of motherboard or other little details that smaller outfits will offer you more choice in.
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sideshow fresh
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/21 21:38:28
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Can anyone see any problems with this system that I found at ibuypower.com? With shipping, it's $1,059. It's not clear, but it looks like I will have at least 2 USB and 2 firewire ports, though I can't tell whether either fw port is a TI. I also can't tell if I have enough ATA drives, but it looks that way. I need to call to confirm these issues.
Thanks for the tip, JB. Scott - man, every time I look at a system I come back and compare it to you to see how close I can get. Unfortunately, I priced a similar ADK system at almost $300 more. I know it's worth the extra to get your expertise and a system configured for Sonar. But like you said, $300 buys a lot of diapers! I'll come to you when I'm ready to upgrade to the RME FF 800 or anything else I need. Thanks again for the help. I haven't made the final decision, but I definitely feel more comfortable with this than an in-store.
Case ( Raidmax X-1 ATX Mid-tower Case w/420W Power Supply Silver )
Processor ( [939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 X2 3800+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology )
Processor Cooling ( CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit )
Motherboard ( Asus A8N-SLI Premium nForce4-SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Dual Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, Dual PCI-E MB )
Memory ( 1024 MB [512MB X2] DDR-400 PC3200 Memory Module Corsair-Value or Major Brand )
Video Card ( Nvidia Geforce 6200 with TurboCache Supporting 256MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
Hard Drive ( 200 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache] )
2nd Hard Drive ( 200 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache] )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( 16X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black )
USB 2.0 Accessories ( Build-in USB 2.0 Ports )
Operation System ( MS Windows XP Home Edition w/Service Pack-2 )
IEEE-1394 Fire Wire Card ( IEEE-1394 Firewire PCI Card w/Cable + Software )
Doug SONAR 4, MOTU 828 mkII, Genelec 1031a, Yamaha NS-10m, Focusrite Red 1, Manley Vari-Mu "Spalding, get your foot off the boat!"
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jcschild
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/21 22:47:09
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wait until monday or tuesday AMD prices will drop!
Scott
ADK
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stevee9c6
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/23 20:25:51
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the cheapo computers work fine for everyday use but once you start to push them they break down. whether it's the cheap power supply, cheap cooling, cheap ram, cheap hard drives or cheap motherboard most people will get bit eventually. i spent the extra money on a high-end dell Not to be contrary, but there is nothing cheap in the ACER E360. Your inference that inferior components are used is simply incorrect. The components used are brand name, quality stuff. It is very quiet and has worked very well. The initial question asked if a system like this would suffice and if he would suffer in comparision to a assembled machine from a pro DAW assembler. The answer is multifactorial. If... you are comfortable installing hard drives, memory, and can follow simple instructions on tweaking XP then you will do well with something like the ACER E 360. XP Media Center is not an issue. You simply disable the media center functions. It's not a big deal. You will have no support however. This is what the DAW folks really shine at... support. If you are comfortable working on stuff, Tiger Direct has a dual core Pentium kit that is an absolute screamer for $499.
post edited by stevee9c6 - 2006/07/23 20:37:02
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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sideshow fresh
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/24 12:52:19
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It seems to me I can fix any off-the-shelf deficiencies by adding a firewire card w/ a TI chipset ($30), replacing the onboard video card ($50), and by doing a clean OS install ( approx. $60 extra). That puts me at about $750 or so. What I CAN'T resolve is an inferior power supply (300 watts), the uncertainty of the chipset, and lack of support.
My options appear to be down to (1) the $750 HP machine as stated above, (2) the $1000 machine from ibuypower.com (resolves all issues except lack of support), or (3) $1,300 for the ADK machine. The ibuypower machine may be eliminated due to their website not existing for the last 24 hours.
If my Mackie d8b goes for a decent price on ebay this week, I may be the proud owner of a new ADK system soon. I'm getting close to the final decision! Thanks for all the great advice.
Doug SONAR 4, MOTU 828 mkII, Genelec 1031a, Yamaha NS-10m, Focusrite Red 1, Manley Vari-Mu "Spalding, get your foot off the boat!"
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calaverasgrandes
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/24 15:15:37
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Case ( Raidmax X-1 ATX Mid-tower Case w/420W Power Supply Silver )
Processor ( [939-pin] AMD® Athlon-64 X2 3800+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology )
Processor Cooling ( CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit )
Motherboard ( Asus A8N-SLI Premium nForce4-SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Dual Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, Dual PCI-E MB )
Memory ( 1024 MB [512MB X2] DDR-400 PC3200 Memory Module Corsair-Value or Major Brand )
Video Card ( Nvidia Geforce 6200 with TurboCache Supporting 256MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
Hard Drive ( 200 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache] )
2nd Hard Drive ( 200 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache] )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( 16X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black )
USB 2.0 Accessories ( Build-in USB 2.0 Ports )
Operation System ( MS Windows XP Home Edition w/Service Pack-2 )
IEEE-1394 Fire Wire Card ( IEEE-1394 Firewire PCI Card w/Cable + Software ) I would see about getting it sans video card, the turbocache cards use system ram to supplement on card ram, which detracts from system and audio performance. I see you have an 828MKII, I have one also and can vouch for how finicky it can be about firewire. Take a look at Gigabytes motherboards with TI chips for firewire. This is what I use with my MOTU and it works great. Also as far as AMD chips go, I would get it with a 3000 or 3200, tehn upgrade to an opteron 165. Which is dual core, but with 1 mb cache per core. and great overclockability
Sonar 7.0.3, Mattel Synsonics, Motu 828MKII (BLA), TC-powercore, Stillwell plugins, Moog MG1, Korg Poly 800, DX27s, Moogerfooger Lowpass, Ovation Magnum, Stingray fretless, Mesa Bass 400, Waldorf Edition, DBA fuzz war, Summit 2BA221, etc
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/24 19:01:44
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ORIGINAL: stevee9c6
the cheapo computers work fine for everyday use but once you start to push them they break down. whether it's the cheap power supply, cheap cooling, cheap ram, cheap hard drives or cheap motherboard most people will get bit eventually. i spent the extra money on a high-end dell
Not to be contrary, but there is nothing cheap in the ACER E360. Your inference that inferior components are used is simply incorrect. The components used are brand name, quality stuff. It is very quiet and has worked very well. The initial question asked if a system like this would suffice and if he would suffer in comparision to a assembled machine from a pro DAW assembler. The answer is multifactorial.
if you look up to my first post (#6) you'll see that i agree a consumer computer would be fine. in fact i run one myself. what i don't agree with is that "a computer is just a computer," especially when it comes to high-performance applications, audio being one of them. also not knowing what's inside the acer e360 i wasn't inferring anything about it in particular. but i do know that there is a reason you pay more for a dell precision workstation and a dimension of the same specifications (besides the supply and demand curve) - one is built for professional use and one is built as cheaply as possible. a pro daw builder takes this mentality even further by optimizing the hardware and software for audio. will you pay more? yes. will it run faster, longer, and quieter than an off-the-shelf pc? yes. do you need one? that depends. if you need a serious daw then yes (or build it yourself if you know what you are doing and time is no issue). if you don't need a serious daw then by all means go buy whatever they're selling at best buy.
If... you are comfortable installing hard drives, memory, and can follow simple instructions on tweaking XP then you will do well with something like the ACER E 360. XP Media Center is not an issue. You simply disable the media center functions. It's not a big deal.
You will have no support however.
This is what the DAW folks really shine at... support.
in my opinion the reason you buy from a pro daw builder is because your time is more valuable spent recording music than researching and tinkering. you can do all the performance and hardware compatibility (see uad-1/fireware/sata) research yourself, buy all the parts yourself, put them all together yourself and remove useless software and services yourself or you can spend the extra money and skip all that. personally my time isn't worth the hassle - i'd rather spend the money. each person has to decide on their own but next time i know what i'm going to do.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/24 19:10:15
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ORIGINAL: sideshow fresh
It seems to me I can fix any off-the-shelf deficiencies by adding a firewire card w/ a TI chipset ($30), replacing the onboard video card ($50), and by doing a clean OS install ( approx. $60 extra). That puts me at about $750 or so. What I CAN'T resolve is an inferior power supply (300 watts), the uncertainty of the chipset, and lack of support.
My options appear to be down to (1) the $750 HP machine as stated above, (2) the $1000 machine from ibuypower.com (resolves all issues except lack of support), or (3) $1,300 for the ADK machine. The ibuypower machine may be eliminated due to their website not existing for the last 24 hours.
If my Mackie d8b goes for a decent price on ebay this week, I may be the proud owner of a new ADK system soon. I'm getting close to the final decision! Thanks for all the great advice.
just ask yourself if the peace of mind, support, and time saved is worth the extra money. also i looked up the hp you listed above (m7560n) and it's $919 after mail-in rebate, not $610...? anyway as i said above, it really comes down to time vs. money.
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sideshow fresh
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/24 23:47:30
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As Scott predicted, AMD's dropped today - big time. My ADK system is well under $1,200 and my d8b hit its reserve price today! I already called Scott to place my order. Haven't finalized the specs, but I'll post when complete. Thanks everyone!
Doug SONAR 4, MOTU 828 mkII, Genelec 1031a, Yamaha NS-10m, Focusrite Red 1, Manley Vari-Mu "Spalding, get your foot off the boat!"
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stevee9c6
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/25 11:18:42
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also not knowing what's inside the acer e360 i wasn't inferring anything about it in particular. but i do know that there is a reason you pay more for a dell precision workstation and a dimension of the same specifications (besides the supply and demand curve) - one is built for professional use and one is built as cheaply as possible.
Really, I'm not trying to argue. The difference between Dell and anyone else is primarily marketing. I'm typing this on my Dell Dimension Pro in my office. Regarding professional DAW assemblers, they use the same off the shelf components used in virtually any machine. They are using no proprietary components. They are selling service and support. The hardware in my off the shelf ACER E360 is item for item as good as anything assembled by anyone. Eliminating all of the bloat ware and preloaded junk takes a few minutes. Adding a second SATA 300gb internal drive, an additional gb of DDR memory, and a firewire pci card took about 30 minutes. I enjoy doing this stuff. I certainly feel that Scott and others like him are providing a valuable service to the DAW community. The originator of the thread has decided to order from ADK and that sounds like it may be his best option given his concerns. BTW... my new CD (available today!) was recorded entirely on the Acer. :)
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sideshow fresh
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/25 14:24:30
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Really, I'm not trying to argue. The difference between Dell and anyone else is primarily marketing. I'm typing this on my Dell Dimension Pro in my office. Regarding professional DAW assemblers, they use the same off the shelf components used in virtually any machine. They are using no proprietary components. They are selling service and support. The hardware in my off the shelf ACER E360 is item for item as good as anything assembled by anyone. Eliminating all of the bloat ware and preloaded junk takes a few minutes. Adding a second SATA 300gb internal drive, an additional gb of DDR memory, and a firewire pci card took about 30 minutes.
I enjoy doing this stuff. I certainly feel that Scott and others like him are providing a valuable service to the DAW community. The originator of the thread has decided to order from ADK and that sounds like it may be his best option given his concerns. In addition to great support from someone who knows exactly how I'm using the machine, I'm also happy to have a better power supply than something like the Acer or HP (both 300 watts), an NForce3 chipset that should perform better in my config than nF4 (especially if I get a UAD), and I expect it to be quieter (very important to me). That's not to say you can't make great records on any machine mentioned here! Since my life's about to get a little crazier  , my time will be best spent practicing more and tinkering less.
Doug SONAR 4, MOTU 828 mkII, Genelec 1031a, Yamaha NS-10m, Focusrite Red 1, Manley Vari-Mu "Spalding, get your foot off the boat!"
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/25 20:28:01
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ORIGINAL: stevee9c6
Really, I'm not trying to argue. The difference between Dell and anyone else is primarily marketing. I'm typing this on my Dell Dimension Pro in my office. Regarding professional DAW assemblers, they use the same off the shelf components used in virtually any machine. They are using no proprietary components. They are selling service and support. The hardware in my off the shelf ACER E360 is item for item as good as anything assembled by anyone. Eliminating all of the bloat ware and preloaded junk takes a few minutes. Adding a second SATA 300gb internal drive, an additional gb of DDR memory, and a firewire pci card took about 30 minutes.
i know you aren't trying to argue. =) however let me say with all possible respect for your opinion: i think you are trying to simplify something based on your own needs, when the reality is that as someone's needs get more professional buying a daw gets more complicated and it goes beyond just support. can you run sonar on a pc? of course. you can make a great cd with one. can you run a "datacenter" using media center desktops in your basement? of course. is it worth it? that depends on your needs.
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stevee9c6
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RE: New DAW Considerations
2006/07/25 21:43:54
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you can make a great cd with one Of course you can! I have one for sale.... 
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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