The remarkable possibilites of SONAR .wrk or .BUN files as a recording/mixing tutor

Knowledge of the things you list are skills that provide value and worth that can be used to make money. If I spend hours of study, thousands of my dollars learning how to select the right equipment, hear the eq choices necessary, which fx are appropriate to get the most out of a singer or band so that they can produce a number one hit that rockets them to fame and fortune, I think I deserve getting paid well for that job skill set. Are you suggesting that a lifetime of work should be handed out to whoever wants it, making me of little or no value in the process?

Handing out the files of my work to anyone and everyone would de-value my life time of experience. On the other hand, simply reviewing my files would not give someone else the knowledge or insight necessary to make the choices and decisions I that went through to get to that final mix.

Having the tools is not enough. Having the plans is not enough. Having the materials is not enough. Having all three is not enough.

You have in your hands a fine piece of furniture, all of the tools needed to take raw wood into this piece, the wood itself in a pile, the plans with measurements and connection details, good hands and good eyes. Everything that is needed to build that piece of furniture. Does that automatically mean that you can produce that piece? Does it give you the ability to conceptualize, design, and produce a similar piece from scratch?

I think you may be oversimplifying the whole process.

I'll sell you my files, for a high price. I would never just make them available for free. The software, hardware and knowledge costs money, but even if you purchase or get for free all of the things you list, including notes and documents, you could never purchase my mental processes, etc.

Later
Albert

"mental processes"

I probably would have said it in a less straight forward way... but I agree with Al that there are few shortcuts to your earning your own experience.

I mean that in a good way.

Honestly, having grown up when we spent afternoons listening to records... I've grown to think that mixing is simply an act of realizing what you want in a mix and doing it.

If that doesn't make sense... you just need a bit more practice and experience tuning your ear to hearing what the tools do.

I'd suggest you reach out to folks who are doing work you find interesting and ask for a .bun every now and then.

Each person you ask will react in their personal way.

best,
mike

what an amusing time we live in!

Not to suggest that anyone should be forced in anyway to share the fruits of their labors, but when I stop to think about it, well, that's exactly how I learned the craft!

When I was but a lad (pre-driver's license no less) one of my dear parents would drop me off at one of three (count them three!) local recording studios. All three were 8 track facilities, and all three used the same tape decks, but everything else was different, consoles, outboard gear, even the spaces themselves.

And I would sweep the floors, solder patch-bays, run for coffee, etc to earn the right to set up microphones, and later align tape decks. It was all part of the training, and it took me MANY years to understand that the people skills were every bit as important as the technical skills. Being part of the team meant learning how I could contribute, and at first I wasn't even all that good at sweeping (but I did a mean run for coffee<G>!)

Over time I started to watch many sessions, and learn when, where, and why one might use a specific microphone and place it in a certain place. I learned to splice tape to make edits, and my favorite party trick, spot-erasing.

I didn't really "pay" for the lessons in a conventional sense, but I suppose I freed up the staff's time so that they could be more productive, which was a payment of sorts. I certainly never paid nearly what those lessons were worth!

So the OP's request isn't all that out of line when you put it in that framework, except that the OP can't sweep floors or run for coffee.

Still, the practice of sharing tips and tricks is as old as the recording industry, and it's kind of a shame that we've managed to make it less relevant in the DAW era. And I don't think it was a purposeful shift, but it is a very real shift.

I invite very few people into my home, where my studio exists today, because, well, it's my home. I do try to teach my clients as much as I can during a project so that if they so desire they can set up their own personal studio. And that probably costs me some repeat business, but they'd have found a way with or without me. And oddly enough, I do get repeat business because I've demonstrated that I bring value to the project.

I don't have a solution, the bundle file as teaching tool is an interesting concept, but we need to find a way to compensate the folks that create them fairly. And then we'll be back where we started!

I won't drop names, but I can tell you that an awful lot of the folks at the very top of the ladder are still very gracious and generous with their knowledge. I've learned from some really great folks, and I've learned not just recording and mixing tips, but also about being a contributing member of the community.

I think if you browse these forums (and others) often you'll see that there are lots of folks that are more than willing to help and share. As long as people do not try to take advantage of them...

I think the OP has a very exciting idea and I for one would be very keen to give away information both for free and in the form of courses. The exciting thing about the OP is a new way of teaching this stuff. Firstly the old way of sweeping floors in studios is gone and a very new and interesting way is happening now. I got very excited about the idea of using something like an OpenLabs Neko fully equipped with an entire sound engineering and music production course and sell that to schools for young students to be able to use and complete over a one or two year period. In that situation though I would be there in the class and there could be 15 Nekos setup and everyone is doing the lesson together. (Still could happen!)

There is nothing wrong with using multi track sessions as long as it is cool with the client and if you dont want to do those or use your own material then you can easily create the sessions especially for the education purpose. Now the challenge is how to make that modern approach of opening a mix session and how do I get why I set those compressor settings the way I did across to guitz. The exciting thing for me is how do I teach guitz how to do something and how do I get the solid core theory stuff to him at the sametime.  For him to just open a big session and see how I have set things is not good enough, there needs to be a lot more.

I have been teaching 15 to 18 year old boys and girls last year in modern music technology and recording and going in there with big multi track sessions all with effects and it has been a challenge and exciting at the same time. I found I had to set up special tutorial sessions first. What works here too is putting my session up on a big screen with a data projector and I had a headset mike as well.

I had to create a lesson so guitz or a student may learn how to set up the compression on a snare just as an example. Now I would record some dynmaic snare playing and setup a compressor on that track. For a learner to just open up the session and see and hear the compressor in action is one thing but what has to be done is somehow the process is taught of how I arrived there. Maybe he should just hit play and I have a continuous voice lecture track with me explaining the basic parameters of a compressor. You could use automation to adjust the parameters one by one and slowly while I talk. Also I like the way people like Tom Lubin get things across really well with graphics. The movie track could also be utilised in Sonar to maybe have something running there all at the same time. I think there should be some pdfs buried in the session somewhere so people can open and read them for further info. And maybe a track that is opened up very wide and high with lots of clear waveforms in it. Not making sound but showing the waves etc.

How do you get across something like how to mix. At the TAFE I tend to play the session and make moves and explain what I am doing and why, so could that style of learning be created in a Sonar session and sent to you and you open and play it and hear it. Do I talk on a lecture track too. The music needs to duck a lot while I talk and then go back up loud etc..

There are some very exciting things going on here in Melbourne about people coming up with very new, innovative ways of explaining music production and sound engineering all using a program like Sonar to do it. We are aiming it at the younger people. They learn real fast and get it quick too! It can go very deep into many areas like soft synths for example. I think modern soft synths are amazing and they sound fabulous. They are also going beyond what the old stuff did. The challenge here too is how to explain synthesis.

There is an old and fine tradition there in music and sound and audio and I believe we can take all the very best of that and some how put into a new and fresh modern exciting way of learning and doing things. I believe things are sounding WAY better now and enginering is only getting better by leaps and bounds. Some are getting left behind but I am in the rush to keep going forward. These kids pulled up killer mixes and made some serious music right before me in hours! But I think there is some sold theory and grounding that others here are attributing to and they are right too. It is important to get all that good solid stuff across right from basic sound theory but how do we do it using state of the art software and so people can learn it by themselves. That is the challenge. I for one are up  for it.

I think there also needs to be some sort of communication to back it all up. Like if I sold a course to you for example, I would want you to be able to contact me and I suppliment my tutors with on line live help at times and also more tutorials on pdf files that you can log into and download. (Hey what about the idea of a live masterclass being podcast, direct from a studio with lesson all planned, camera, audio examples etc. As long as it looks and sounds good at your end there is no limit really)

 I bumped into a old friend last night at home depot... I hadn't seen him in many years. Since he's grown up he's started a family and is about to have his third child.

I've been following his music and know that his band is about to release a CD next month.

I got a big hug and he said... "man I'd really like to show you what I am up to these days... you taught me so much when I was getting started."

I have lots of those experiences and often times that experience also includes the type of realizations Jimmy just describes. This encounter from last night included the full spectrum of memories. :-)

I think it's the nature of getting older...  :-)

I continue to help people... but I have learned to expect my best *students* to outgrow me and leave for their *walk about* before they fully understand the gifts that were shared.

All in all, I find it rewarding.

best regards,
mike

guitz why start in the middle?

Why not start recording the lesson now.
Show them what it's like to buy a new PC with Windows 7 64 bit - Sonar 8.5.2.222, a soundcard, a midi controller and get it working.
Then show them how to install the thousands of dollars worth of software one may own such as Spectrasonics, Toontracks, etc. and get all that working. (when one can't get updated drivers for the stuff)

The way I see it by the time you get that working the student would be pretty darn smart.

Pushing the buttons in Sonar would be a no-brainer after that. That's a big if and when.

Guitarhacker


I agree with Albert. 

Just having a tool, is one thing....using it effectively is another. I know lots of guys who ahve a garage full of tools but don't know how to use them..... it's the same with music.

It's more valuable to you, to figure something out on your own than to have it handed to you.... because the education is in the process. To understand why you did something, and what the result was.... is the important part of learning.... It's only with a foundation of understanding the basics and why's of things that we are able to build our knowledge into areas that are "uncharted".

Books will get you started into the basics... you learn by trial & error... doing.... failing and succeeding...and continuing to build on what you learn on the journey. There are already huge amounts of data out in the general population... free and for sale that will help with the basics and in many cases going beyond the basics.

I have learned things that I will share, and I have learned things that...at this time... I will not share with others..... each of us is the same way I believe..... I've only been at the home recording thing (in a serious way) for 2 years..... maybe in another 10  I'll actually know something worth sharing.... right now.... I'm still learning...every day, by digging in and trying things...remembering what works and what doesn't.

 
 
But you see, going by you and the poster before yours answers, this is the exact reason you don't have to worry about 'handing out free information', etc, etc....the EXACT and PRECISE way you perform ANYTHING on any song (and by the way, I'm really only  interested in the people who are recording their own music, NOT people out to compete with the guys who ONLY record others) ,  is NEVER going to wind up sounding EXACTLY and PRECISELY like a bit for bit, note for note copy. It just isn't. In fact, the variables are SO infinite, it isn't really even worth discussing in the overall end product. You tell me you apply , say, +3dbs at 400hz to get your bass track sounding just so, and then record the track example to hear....do you think someone else, even with that detailed knowledge is going to end up with the EXACT and PRECISE results you did in the overall scheme of their OWN SONG? No way.  In reality too, the information of things one might want to know or learn , is probably already floating out there in the internet in various forms, ...why not incorporate it all into our environment(cakewalk)? 
 
And even a seasoned person who's made zillions of home recording can learn new ways and approaches they might never have thought of doing before....The more I think about this, the more I believe it is a stellar idea...If you didn't want to participate, either as a contributor or user,  you don't have to. Problem solved!