Changing Metronome Sounds

Author
ptorpey
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 85
  • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
  • Status: offline
2006/07/21 17:57:01 (permalink)

Changing Metronome Sounds

Since my audio card has a severe latency problem when playing my midi keyboard through the PC and using soft synths, I decided to have my keyboard/synthesizer produce the sounds while I'm recording in MC.
This means I also want to listen to the metronome (and other pre-recorded tracks) through my external synth.

The question is, how can I change the sound used by the metronome? As I'm playing now, the metronome is using the same sound as I'm playing on the synth. I see under Options / Project / Metronome that I can change the port and channel of the metronome, but I don't see how to translate that channel info into what sound from a bank is playing. sure, I can change the note played, but only from the sound associated with that track.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

-- Pete

-- Pete
#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    fournis
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 57
    • Joined: 2006/03/23 17:32:28
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/21 20:18:11 (permalink)
    Pete,

    When you go to Options, Audio, Metronome, you will see the notes listed that the metronome is playing at, adjust one, and you will hear a difference when you close the tab.

    NIkosan
    #2
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/21 22:47:21 (permalink)
    Right on, fournis!

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #3
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/21 23:53:27 (permalink)
    But if I change the notes, I still get sounds from the piano sound - How do I change this to get something from the drums sounds?


    -- Pete
    #4
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 08:49:21 (permalink)
    Pete - the default MIDI notes for the met in OPTIONS>PROJECT>METRONOME go to channel 10, that SHOULD give you drum sounds. Have you changed that to another channel? I just tried it on mine and anything other than channel 10 will give you the default sound on the keyboard (piano), channel 10 should give you drum sounds. If your keyboard uses GM for channel 10, then the NOTES listed at the bottom of that window will determine which drum sound will play. The default, F#3, is associated with a Tamborine for the Standard Set 1.

    Port 1 means whatever you have assigned to PORT 1 on the OPTIONS>PROJECT>SYNC tab. If you have more than 1 output assigned on the MIDI DEVICES, then MC will automatically assign ports to each device based on their order in the MIDI DEVICES OUTPUT window. So check and make sure your keyboard is assigned to the same port as your MET output port.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #5
    bilbo
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 128
    • Joined: 2006/07/08 18:55:59
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 09:24:17 (permalink)
    Might be easier to switch the metronome to digital audio from the metronome toolbar. Just click the little speaker or MIDI icon to switch from one to the other. You will want the speaker button blue (on) for the digital audio metronome.
    post edited by bilbo - 2006/07/27 19:31:27
    #6
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 11:02:25 (permalink)
    Beagle,

    I must be mis-understanding something here, or maybe it's the fact that my keyboard is an old Ensoniqs keyboard and doesn't follow current midi standards. Here is what I am observing:

    1. In Options / Project / Metronome, I get the same (piano) sound out of the metronome no matter which channel I choose (i.e., choosing channel 10 gives the same sounds as choosing channels 1-16).

    2. When in the Track View, if I change the patch from piano to sax to drums, etc. the metrnome (as well as what I play on the keyboard) produce the same sounds. In other words, if I choose piano sounds to be played as I play my keyboard, then the metrnome will sound like a piano.

    Something strange here or am I missing the point?

    Thanks.

    -- Pete

    ORIGINAL: Beagle

    Pete - the default MIDI notes for the met in OPTIONS>PROJECT>METRONOME go to channel 10, that SHOULD give you drum sounds. Have you changed that to another channel? I just tried it on mine and anything other than channel 10 will give you the default sound on the keyboard (piano), channel 10 should give you drum sounds. If your keyboard uses GM for channel 10, then the NOTES listed at the bottom of that window will determine which drum sound will play. The default, F#3, is associated with a Tamborine for the Standard Set 1.

    Port 1 means whatever you have assigned to PORT 1 on the OPTIONS>PROJECT>SYNC tab. If you have more than 1 output assigned on the MIDI DEVICES, then MC will automatically assign ports to each device based on their order in the MIDI DEVICES OUTPUT window. So check and make sure your keyboard is assigned to the same port as your MET output port.


    -- Pete
    #7
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 11:25:05 (permalink)
    2. When in the Track View, if I change the patch from piano to sax to drums, etc. the metrnome (as well as what I play on the keyboard) produce the same sounds. In other words, if I choose piano sounds to be played as I play my keyboard, then the metrnome will sound like a piano.

    In the track view, what do you have your MIDI track's OUTPUT set to? They keyboard? If so, why? I'm not understanding what you're attempting to do. it might not have anything to do with why your keyboard's Met output is piano, but I don't know and I need to understand more about your settings.

    I just did some more testing based on what I know about the way you have things set up and i can't get my keyboard to give me anything but drum sound for Met on channel 10 output.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #8
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 11:53:13 (permalink)
    I do have my midi output in the Track View set to the keyboard. I did this because when sending midi output to my sound card and using soft synths I was experiencing an unacceptable latency. Thus, I thought that if I sent my midi output to my keyboard the keyboard would produce the desired sounds without any latency. This works, but, as I indicated, whatever sound I choose from the Bank select in Track View, my keyboard plays that sound as does the metronome. Changing the channel in Options / Project / Metronome does not appear to modify the MET sound at all. Only changing the Bank in the Track View seems to change the sound of the MET (to be the same as the sound I selected for playing).

    Maybe I'm doing something stupid?!? I do eventually plan on purchasing a USB sound card for output which, hopefully, will solve the latency problem (but I haven't done this yet).

    Thanks for your suggestions. This is a bit frustrating!

    -- Pete

    ORIGINAL: Beagle

    2. When in the Track View, if I change the patch from piano to sax to drums, etc. the metrnome (as well as what I play on the keyboard) produce the same sounds. In other words, if I choose piano sounds to be played as I play my keyboard, then the metrnome will sound like a piano.

    In the track view, what do you have your MIDI track's OUTPUT set to? They keyboard? If so, why? I'm not understanding what you're attempting to do. it might not have anything to do with why your keyboard's Met output is piano, but I don't know and I need to understand more about your settings.

    I just did some more testing based on what I know about the way you have things set up and i can't get my keyboard to give me anything but drum sound for Met on channel 10 output.


    -- Pete
    #9
    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 12:06:32 (permalink)
    I'm shooting from the hip, but if you're using a 'bank' of sounds which you installed in the bank, then of course the program is going to play from that bank. If you're using a 'patch' it will also play that patch. What do you have set for the 'in' of the track? I also have all my MIDI set to play through my keyboard, and the metronome always plays the high hat or tambourine sound, whichever it is. But it's never loud enough, a problem experienced by almost everyone here. So it's better to use session drummer (if you have it) or the drum map (ditto) or some other drum device for timing while you play. It will be more audible. Greg

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #10
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 12:29:49 (permalink)
    When I open a new project I've been using the default setup which is:

    Input: Cakewalk Music Connector (going to keyboard)
    Output: CAkeWalk Music Connecter (coming from keyboard)
    Midi Channel: none
    Patch: -1
    Bank: None

    Metronome set to Channel 10 inside Options.

    All sound then comes out of the keyboard, but both the MET and notes played while recording have the same sound.

    -- Pete

    -- Pete
    #11
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 14:33:21 (permalink)
    Pete - I just tried doing what you described and it seems to work fine for me. There must be some other setting that you've got set somewhere that is causing this. Right now I don't have any other suggestions, but I'll think about it today while I'm at Six Flags and then the Steven Curtis Chapman and Jeremy Camp concert tonight! I'll let you know if I can think of anything else to try.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #12
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/22 15:13:38 (permalink)
    Ok, I did some experimentation. Maybe this will help.

    1. I set Track #1 so that:
    input = Cakewalk Music Connector - midi channel 1
    output: Cakewalk Music Connector
    Midi channel = 1
    Bank = 1
    patch = piano

    2. I recorded the piano sound. The metronome also sounded like a piano.

    3. Next, I unarmed Track #1 and set Track #2 so that:

    input = Cakewalk Music Connector - midi channel 2
    output = Cakewalk Music Connector
    Midi Channel = 2
    Bank = 1
    Patch = drum sound

    4. I recorded a drum sound on Track 2. Both the metronome and recorded sound sounded like a drum.

    5. As I recorded Track 2, Track 1 played back (as it should) but also sounded like a drum!

    6. Playing back of both tracks makes them both sound like drums.

    7. If I change a patch on either track to sound a different instrument, then both tracks plus the metronome sound like that instrument!!!

    Note: I'm listening to the output from the headphones connected to my keyboard/synth.

    Questions:

    - Maybe this is something to do with the Omni setting vs. selecting a midi channel?

    - Is there something I should be setting on my (old Ensonix) keyboard/synth? I just plugged this into the Cakewalk Music Connector (midi to USB) and into my PC. I asume changes I make in MC are passed to the keyboard/synth?

    - Maybe this Ensonix is too old and doesn't follow current midi standards? I do know that when I choose a sound to patch, the sound coming out of my synth doesn't match the text description in MC (but I can get different sounds).

    Baffled.

    -- Pete


    -- Pete
    #13
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/23 07:32:24 (permalink)
    - Maybe this is something to do with the Omni setting vs. selecting a midi channel?
    That was my next question - why are you not using OMNI? If you are using individual channels, I believe you should have to set your keyboard up to send those specific channels with those specific patches. Try using OMNI and see what happens.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #14
    bilbo
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 128
    • Joined: 2006/07/08 18:55:59
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/23 11:44:25 (permalink)
    I have an Emu Proteus MPS+ synth. I have the MPS+ in the multi mode when running multiple MIDI patches. I have each patch assigned to a different channel.
    post edited by bilbo - 2006/07/27 19:31:41
    #15
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/23 22:43:07 (permalink)
    I have both a "multi" mode" and an "omni" mode on my Ensonix KS-32 synth (as well as other modes). I tried both, but with no success.

    Do I need to set the channel to be used for each sound on my synth or (I th ought) is this selected in the MC Track View under "midi channel"?

    I am completely befuddled by this now. Maby my KS-32 is too old and doesn't follow current midi standars?

    Here are some excerpts from the KS-32 manual (which, as a newbie, I find very confusing:

    The KS–32 has a fixed MIDI transmitting scheme, depending on the mode it is in. When in Sound Select Mode, the KS–32 always transmits on the Base Channel. When in Sequence Mode, the KS–32 always transmits on the individual track channel.

    Base Channel MIDI Status
    This screen determines the MIDI Status of the Base Channel. The four possible settings are:

    ° BOTH Keys, controllers, etc., will play locally and will be sent via MIDI on the selected MIDI channel. Incoming MIDI will play internal voices.
    ° LOCAL The Base Channel will only play internal voices, and will not send any data out MIDI. Incoming MIDI will play internal voices.
    ° MIDI Keys, controllers, etc., will be sent out via MIDI when the keyboard is played. Incoming MIDI will play internal voices. This is comparable to Local Off on some keyboards. Use this status when you want to play remote MIDI devices.
    ° *EXT* Same as MIDI except that incoming MIDI will not play internal voices. This is useful when using the KS–32 as a Master MIDI Controller with an external sequencer and a number of other MIDI sound modules.




    Note: ° Press Select Seq/Preset. This puts the KS–32 in Sequence/Preset Select Mode.


    MIDI Mode — MIDI In Mode
    This parameter determines how MIDI information will be received by the KS–32. MIDI Mode has no effect on what MIDI information is sent.

    There are five MIDI modes implemented in the KS–32:

    ° OMNI — In this mode the KS–32 will receive on any or all 16 MIDI channels. This mode is useful when you are only using a few instruments, and you are not concerned with setting up different channels for each device.
    ° POLY — In this mode the KS–32 will receive only on the Base MIDI channel. MIDI information on all other channels will be ignored.
    ° MULTI — An ENSONIQ innovation, MULTI mode is the key to unlocking the potential of the KS–32 as a multi-timbral receiver from an external MIDI sequencer. In MULTI mode, the 8 tracks of the current song or sequence can receive MIDI information independently and polyphonically on up to 8 different MIDI channels. You can easily create empty sequence templates for use in multi-channel reception; see Section 8 — Presets for details.

    Different MIDI channels should be selected for each track that you want to receive. This can be accomplished on the Edit Track MIDI Channel screen (see Section 8 — Presets for more information).

    In MULTI mode, independent of what sounds are selected on the front panel, the sounds you hear will depend entirely on what MIDI channel(s) the MIDI data is received on.

    MONO Mode
    MONO mode is particularly useful for driving the KS–32 from a guitar controller, or any other application where having up to eight independent, monophonic channels is desirable.

    The KS–32 offers two types of MONO mode operation. In both types, the KS–32 will receive monophonically on eight consecutive MIDI channels starting with the Base Channel (the Base Channel through Base Channel +7). The difference has to do with how those MIDI channels are routed within the KS–32.

    ° MONO A — This is another ENSONIQ development intended to make using multi-channel controllers (like guitars) easier. All notes and controllers received will play whatever programs are selected for the note that is played, just as if the note was played from the keyboard. You have the advantage of multiple tracks, which will respond independently to controllers received on multiple channels, but you do not have to set up the programs for each track separately.
    ° MONO B — This is the more conventional type of MONO mode. It allows you to set up each track of the current song or sequence as a monophonic synthesizer. Each track can have a different program assigned to it. This is the only way to get a different sound on each string when using a MIDI guitar controller.

    Global Controllers in MONO Mode
    Global controllers are controllers sent on one channel that affect all other channels simultaneously. They can be useful in reducing the number of MIDI events required to get particular effects, and can thereby reduce the delays sometimes associated with overloading MIDI. Some guitar controllers can transmit global controllers, and the KS–32 can respond to them.

    In MONO mode (A or B) the base channel minus one becomes the MIDI channel for global controllers (pitch bend, pressure, etc.). For example, if the base channel is channel 3, any controllers received on channel 2 will be interpreted as global controllers and will affect all voices being played. If the base channel is channel 1, channel 16 becomes the channel for global controllers. Each track will also respond independently to controllers sent on its own channel. For example, each guitar string on a MIDI guitar can send independent pitch bend, while the “whammy bar” controller could be sent on the global channel to affect all voices.

    XCtrl - External Controller
    Use XCtrl to assign external MIDI controllers to affect the KS–32.


    Well, not sure what else to do. Thanks for any suggestions.

    -- Pete

    -- Pete
    #16
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/24 08:27:32 (permalink)
    Well I put my synth into "omni" mode and then "multi" mode, but neither seemed to help. They both seemed to have different effects, but I couldn't really figure out cause and effect.

    In the MC track view I tried setting the inputs for two tracks to "omni", outputs for the two tracks to "cakewalk music connector", and:
    a. 1st experiment = track 1 midi channel = track 2 midi channel = 1
    b. 2nd experiment = track 1 midi channel = 1 and track 2 midi channel = 2
    In both cases when I changed the patch sound for track 2, all sounds would change for both tracks.

    Maybe I should throw my KS-32 out the window! It's documentation didn't make sense to me.

    Oh well.

    -- Pete

    -- Pete
    #17
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/24 08:34:08 (permalink)
    Pete - it very well sounds like you need to make sure your keyboard is set to the parameters that you want to use for this to work. It might not power up in the configuration which will yield the same results as our keyboards do.

    It looks like you need the BASE CHANNEL MIDI STATUS to be set to MIDI/OMNI mode. It's possible that you'll need MIDI/MULTI mode, but I'm not sure. It looks like you definitely don't want MONO mode.

    Does your manual say what the power on state is?

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #18
    ptorpey
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2006/06/26 19:50:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/25 17:02:04 (permalink)
    Beagle,

    Well, I'm finally getting somewhere!

    Here is what I did to get this to work on the KS-32:

    1. Set "Base channel" to "midi"
    2. Set "MIDI Mode" to "multi"
    3. The KS-32, being a rather old synth, may not follow the current midi standards. Thus:
    a. Voices on the MS synth on the PC don't sound like the corresponding voices on the KS-32.
    b. I can't seem to play anything on the KS-32 above channel 8.
    c. Since I can't play channel 10 (and this probably isn't the default drum map for the KS-32 anyway), here is what I did:
    - Inserted a new midi track in MC
    - Set the patch to a number which gives drums on the KS-32
    - Under MC's options/program, set the metronome to the midi channel associated with this new inserted track

    Now I can play and record using the internal sounds of the KS-32, and the metronome sounds like a drum sound!

    After recording a sequence on several tracks everything sounds great through the KS-32. Now if I output everything through my sound card instead, the voices are, of course, somewhat different, but that's okay for now.

    Now, perhaps my next step will be to try and get the internal sounds from my KS-32 passed through the audio output jack and into the PC's sound card so that I can make an MP3 file with the sounds which come from the KS-32. Do you think this is possible or is this asking too much of the system? Hmm....

    Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.

    -- Pete

    -- Pete
    #19
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: Changing Metronome Sounds 2006/07/25 18:47:56 (permalink)
    glad it's working out!

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #20
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1