Vocals Issues: Levels and hiss

I just looked up your audio interface and it appears to have two mic pres on it. Is this your correct interface:



If so, the hiss is probably coming from somewhere else. What kind of mic are you using, where are you plugging it in, and what kind of cord are you using to connect to the interface?

You keep calling it a "sound card" but in reality, you are talking about the interface box that attaches to the sound card right? I can't imagine why you would be getting hiss or noise from something like that. Usually hiss or noise like you described is the result of impedence mismatching or ground loop or bad cable or gear. Does the mic sound OK plugged into something else (like a normal mixer)? If so, it's not the mic. Try a troubleshooting route that starts at the front of the signal chain and systematically eliminate the known good stuff. What remains is the culprit (usually).

It's hard to know for sure what gain stage the noise is from without some know good gear to do process of elimination with. But my first guess would be the mic preamps in the DA-2496 are adding the noise. It's rare that a modern microphone would hiss unless it's just defective and even if it were the mic you would get it at all levels. Here are some things to check.

If the DA-2496 has a software mixer that lets you set the level of each input make sure it's up all the way (assuming it's not the problem) so you get the most signal you can with the least amount of preamp gain (hardware knob). If the hiss goes up try the other way around, turn the input gain down some and turn up the mic preamp knob.

If the DA-2496 has inserts on the mic channels and you have a hardware compressor or any quality outboard gear with a gain control try using that as a "makeup gain" control to boot the level after the preamp to keep the preamp gain knob down in the cleaner area.

Also, make sure all other inputs are muted !! You may be getting bleed from other channels, if the DA-2496 has a software mixer use that to turn all other inputs all the way down except your mic and the playback from the computer.

Find and learn how to work every gain stage you have between the mic and the software driver and see if you can find out where most of the noise comes from.

Can you borrow a mixer or mic preamp from someone to try so you can bypass the mic preamp in the DA-2496 and go direct line in ?

I tried recording with another mic (a Shure Beta 36). The background 'areoplane atmosphere' noise with that one is even worse. Both mics are very sensitive to any noise (it can even pick up people talking downstairs better (and sharper) than my own ears.

I'm thinking it's a combination of the room and the Interface. Althought I record only a few feet away from my Carillon PC, it has a zero noise fan. Even so, when trying to pay careful attention to the noise sound, it was similar to that of a computer fan or travelling in an aeroplane (eg. airy with a highish pitched "iiiiiiiii" sound) you experience when flying

As for recording levels, I set the Trim to -INF and the Volume stays at 0. The mic has the low-pass and the -10bd selected.

Maybe I should try a low-pass filter on the recording and a noise gate?

Man, I think ur trim is up a LOT on your interface... because if you can hear ppl wlaking around in another room and your PC fan then maybe you have it a tad too high. It definately sounds like it's the preamp level on the interface.

When you record the vocals, what level does the track peak at (or stay around) when playing back JUST the vocal the track you just recorded?

YAY I've done it!!

Ok, I don't know why this works but if someone else may know....

If you look at the diagram (above) you'll see two mic inserts, each with a preamp. I thought that the one on the left was the only one the phantom power worked in because it was next to that knob, and a Pad24db switch was next to the second input. But I just plugged the mic into input 2 and with the phantom power on it worked - and picked up NO background noise even when the gain level was over half-way up!

So I don't know if that means either inputs 1 and 2 are both designed for different impedences (like 1 for low-noise devices and 2 for high) or if it's just that Input 1 is buggered. I do remember putting a stage mic (Shure Beta 36) in that one once and accidentally hitting the Phantom power switch (God knows how) and maybe I overdrove the input signal to permanent-damage point.

Either way the most important thing is that after your input and a bit of fiddling it's working. All I have to do now is try and play the instruments with a level of proficiency and I'm sorted!

ORIGINAL: Jonny M

Quote from DA-2496 manual: "You risk causing damage if you mistakenly supply phantom power to dynamic microphones...". Oops. Maybe that's what done it.

No, the Audio-Technica AT3035 Microphone is not a dynamic mic, it's a condensor mic and needs phantom power. A modern dynamic mic would not be damaged by phantom power anyway unless there is a short in the cable. The only mics I know of that can be damaged by phantom power are older ribbon microphones like the RCA 44 and 74.

ORIGINAL: Jonny M

Ok this is where I feel stupid (although it does raise a question).

I just discovered that I'm only getting hiss... through my headphones! And when the headphone output volume is quite high. When I did the (now pointless) experiment the headphones were really low. Playing back through my monitor speakers I don't get any background noise on either input! DOH.

Because I work a full time job during the day I generally record in early evening and all my mixing/playback is done at night and sharing a house that means headphones - hence me not discovering this earlier. BUT, I don't understand though how when my headphones are up high, it picks up minute sounds really crisp, including people talking in other rooms - surely they can only 'play' what the mics are picking up? And if the mic's picking it up, how come the moitors aren't playing it?

Or are these frequencies above/below the monitors playback capabilities, which is where high-pass/low-pass filtering and stuff comes in to get rid of them?

I'm not sure I understand what you just said but there are two things to note,.. one if you don't get the hiss with the speakers maybe the headphone amp is just noisy, if you get the hiss even when playing midi stuff or known hiss free audio (like a rip from CD) then that might be it.

You may also be picking up some playback in the headphones.. this won't be hiss but it's not a good thing. Closed back headphones will help this but won't fix a noisy headphone amp. Just like mic preamps headphone amps tend to have the most hiss at the highest volume setting. If you have to crank it up that far to get a good sound level your headphones might just have low output also. The older AKG K240s (600 ohm) were bad about that, since then they have gone to 55 ohm and they are louder.

As for headphones you could get an external headphone amp if that is in fact the problem. Also, a good set of closed phones would be good for tracking. I like the Audio Technica ATH-M40fs for that and they are even flat enough for mixing and editing when you have to use phones.

You do hear things on headphone that you don't hear on monitors, you wouldn't hear it on speakers unless they were good ones and turned up very loud. That's why headphones are good for editing and checking tracks, you can get all the details.

Try setting the gain where you would for vocals on the mic then put it away from sources of noise and just record a blank track like that. Go back and check the track and see how much hiss you have. In fact if you want to do a noise floor test wrap the mic up in a blanket and put it in a box or somthing so it's not picking up much, if you still get hiss you know it's the preamp or some other gain stage. If you get hiss at the headphones even when nothing's playing you have a different problem. Could be a low quality headphone amp or some input you forgot to mute. Remember only the input you are using should be up (hardware and software mixer controls).

ORIGINAL: Jonny M

Closed back headphones will help this but won't fix a noisy headphone amp

I'm guessing it's the headphone amp then because my headphones are closed ones. Seinheisser's. not sure the exact make, but the side has HD25-1 and there's a number 70 next to a an upside-down horseshoe type symbol. Sorry - once I've taken stuff out of the box I put the boxes in the loft/attic and forget the exact makes unless it's written on them.

When I'm wearing the headphones befoe switching anything on, I can't even hear if someone else in the room is talking, but if I turn on the 'input echo' on the sonar track, I can hear people talking in the next room through them if the volume goes over 1/4 of the way round.

the horseshoe thing is ohms, so you're working with 70ohm headphones. i have a pair of sennheisers, hd 280 pro's which are 64ohm.

if you can hear people talking in the next room then something might be turned up way too high. if you snap your fingers into the mic, is it incredibly loud? all mics will pick up hiss of some kind, i get audible hiss when i crank the record volume (so i can hear myself in the headphones) and my noise floor is around -70 to -75db with a mic so maybe it's as simple as that.

the proof is in the recording though. if you don't hear the hiss in the recording (on the speakers) then that should help isolate the problem.

The very first thing you need to do is make sure you have shielded, balanced microphone cables. Of course your guitar cable should also be shielded.
This can often be a source of noise.