ORIGINAL: michael japan

ORIGINAL: gnie

Michael,
ha...I think I just did.
No moral.
I'm not so concerned about there being an addition, but it might help keep things tidy.

We've seen posts in the last few days about making classical scores, and how to develop bass lines.
This kind of talk is as Cakewalk-related as 'Gear', 'Songs', and 'Techniques'. Most of it is applicable to recording in general.

While the process can certainly be inseparable from the creative act itself, everything we do is in service to the music.

hey there. So, I guess my question is--very clearly stated this time, "what gives "us" the impression that Cakewalk is against these types of discussions about the creative process? I mean, this thread might end up OT because the whole discussion is not about music but about creating a new forum, coffee house, etc. But generally, isn't a discussion that is solely built around "creating a bass line" or making scores kosher in the moderators eyes?

we are not able to cover the whole spectrum of music, for we cannot talk about pro artist that influenced us and are music as well as the music industry at a whole (50 artist that changed the face of music), wich can be very scientific if the thread evolves correctly for we can start to try and pin point what it was that made certain artist careers successful, we talk about what we learned from them and the impact it has on our music, we then talk about how the music industry is evolving and what we expect it to evolve into, there is much that can come out of such a discussion from a scientific and aesthetic point that is very much benificial to musicians and our discussions.
What if we want to talk about music contests? how we prepare for them and how they strenghthen us as artists.Theres a thread about music contest in ot forum now. What if we want to talk about starting and running a record label? wich many of us consider an extension of our talent for the home musician can do it all in this day and age. What if we want to talk about the different subjects we like to sing and write about (politics,religion,science etc.. music embodies all of this so it is'nt off topic when these things are discussed in relations to music). What if two or more artists want to collaborate on the forum and make a song together like i'm making a song now? I probably could go on but i'm sure you get the point.When music is talked about in a complete way it pretty much embodies everything, those things just have to be talked about within the context of music- but i assure you they are apart of music, I like to talk about my philosophy in music wich covers a broad range of things including studying other artist in the music industry.

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi-

As many of you know, there was a Cakewalk-sponsored "Coffee House" forum that was open to general discussions, ostensibly about songwriting, recording, OT topics, etc., etc., the whole "community" thing. It quickly deterioriated into vulgar name-calling, trolling, and general nastiness, so CW opted to close it down. You might want to try The Other Place as an alternative.

-Susan

When you speak of coffee house you talk as if such behavior can't be corrected when in reality i'm sure most here know it can. Yes many of us can go to another forum for general discussion but why does any of us hang here in the first place? its because this forum is more comfortable and familiar and we like this enviroment,and this is where we prefer to talk, if many of us here want to talk about the same things here 'coverage of music in a broader way' why not give us what we want if theres a way to control the general discussion enviroment? But as you say we can go else where naturally we feel the same in reverse, that those who don't want general discussion don't have to visit the forum if cakewalk grants it, but i believe many who say they don't want it would be over there posting if one was created cause i know people , if a forum is very active with alot of good discussions many would come participate. Susan there are many ways to control general discussion forums i listed a few above. if a country has a very savage beginning should its leaders say "well we tried we give up, we don't need to start our own country let another country have this territory".
Susan i'm quite sure there are many who would love general discussion here at cakewalk, and from life experience i'm quite sure it would strenghthen us as a community if done correctly.Yes i could go elsewhere for general discussion, i could also go elsewhere for sequencing program,soft synths, sampler programs etc but i prefer cakewalk for all this, and i prefer all my needs be met at a one stop shop, for oneness is what i'm about.

Hi attalus-

Ouch! This is a long-standing debate, and I think you don't know the half of it, so I'll just let it go. Suffice it to say that CW had good reason to close down the CoffeeHouse!

-Susan

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi attalus-

Ouch! This is a long-standing debate, and I think you don't know the half of it, so I'll just let it go. Suffice it to say that CW had good reason to close down the CoffeeHouse!

-Susan

Altho we disagree does'nt mean the debate is'nt interesting, its off topic but enjoyable and one can learn from it .

P.S. If you feel your input is good please continue to post, i only dislike disrespectful trolls and by far that is not you or most who've posted on this thread to my knowledge.

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi attalus-

No, the problem with the CoffeeHouse was that some people were directly threatening some members.

-Susan

Sounds like the type of stuff i go threw with my neighbors and family members, so i would feel right at home

Just kidding and i get your point!

I understand both sides. I'm not overly concerned about it either way. But in reality, monitoring something like this would be no different than it is now. It simply wouldn't be off-topic. Call it music sociology, musicology, whatever. It's on-topic, it deals with issues we already discuss to some degree, and we won't tolerate any more than the BS that goes on in here already.

Computer Music has a general forum, in 4 years time I have never seen it get out of hand like the SONAR forum. People discuss/disagree and call it a day. As a matter of fact CM's forums are intelligently divided into general categories like beginners, hardware, software, etc....these categories keep everything in a nice workin order (e.g., a beginner comes along and instead of posting in the software forum, which is really what the question is about, he/she post in the beginners forum. The babble could go on but let it be said, the bakers really only have a problem w/the SONAR forum. The other forums, for the most part, don't have any of the egocentric problems that exist in this forum.

have a good one
3Eo

Attalus,
Your song sucks, but your point is legitimate. Nevertheless, the answer almost exists within the question. Cakewalk is a business. How much more money will they make from having a wide-open forum? More than it would cost to pay for a full-time moderator? More than it would cost to have the content and policies reviewed by a lawyer?

Cakewalk currently provides excellent forums in which to discuss their software products, affiliated hardware, techniques associated with the above, songs recorded with cakewalk products, AND affiliated and/or competitive software. They are uniquely open about all this. They have no obligation whatsoever, either legal, moral, or civic, to provide a forum to dicuss broad-ranging social, philosophical, artistic, or social issues.

You, I, or anybody else has just as much ability as cakewalk to set up such a forum. Blame me or yourself as much as cakewalk if the forum you wish for doesn't exist. Either of us could set it up for free on countless sites. If you want another forum, set it up. If you feel like cakewalk's forum should for some reason advertize or support it, add the URL to your signature.

Cakewalk doesn't make any money off these forums. They don't charge a "forums surcharge" when you buy their software. Lots of people buy their products and never use the forums and shouldn't have to pay for forum moderators. When they first opened these forums, they had a subset that allowed wide-open discussion of pretty much anything. It basically backfired and caused a lot of ill-will within the subset of cakewalk customers who use these forums. Creating a better version does cakewalk no good whatsoever. They don't save any money, they don't make any money, they don't create better products with more features or improved stability, they don't achieve anything except paying to provide a space for some of their customers to discuss stuff that they could discuss anywhere. That would make sense if cakewalk were a forum company, but it's not. It's a recording software company.

If you want a coffeehouse, make it. there's nothing to it. 12-year-olds are doing it every day, for free.

Cheers.

ORIGINAL: three_eyed_otter
...You know, why would somebody argue against a general topics forum?...

Because so far, 2 of the 3 best recording forums I know of have been shut down completely due to the kinds of problems that wide-open general discussion attracts. People take religion and politics seriously and quite personally. Discussions thereof can become very tense, heated, and emotionally charged, and ill feelings from OT debates can cause lingering grudges. Moreover, the better and more popular the forum becomes, the more it attracts the kind of people who have no investment in maintaining any quality of civil dialog or any useful ON-topic information, and the kind of people who are ready to bait and attack people whose religious or political views they dislike. The reason the Sonar board often attracts the worst posters is because it's the most popular.

Whether somebody thinks Israel is an illegal state that has no right to exist has nothing whatsoever with their ability to discuss compressor usage or latency problems, but expressing those political views could make it very difficult for them to have civil and topical discussions with certain other people in the future. It is extremely difficult to "moderate" wide-open discussion, and even more difficult to try and enforce "partially open" discussion. You either have to allow a virtual free-for-all or you have to get into a lot of murky, labor-intensive waters of censorship and officiating or complicated rules that seem like they're taking sides.
Seriously, there is no reason at all that anybody here can't set up their own forum and put a link to it in their signature. Jeff Noel, who I think still has the record for the most posts of anyone on these forums in spite of the fact that he really hasn't posted around here in the last year or so did exactly that, and a lot of the best people from the old coffeehouse days now post over there. I consider us lucky that cakewalk didn't shut down these forums in the dark days when the outhouse was at its worst, and I'm just as happy to talk politics someplace else.

In hugely popular commercial forums that allow general discussion, threads rarely exist for more than a page or two before people start comparing each other to Hitler. There's no need for that to ever happen on this board.

Cheers.

Why is it that by the time I've worked up enough interest to peruse one of these "issue" threads, Yep has always usurped any cogent responce I might have by posting a well stated thoughtful and what should be (but never is) thread ending post? It can't be that he's more knowledgable or well spoken than me...can it? And yet, what's this? Something with which I might take issue, if only in theory.

ORIGINAL: yep

Cakewalk doesn't make any money off these forums. They don't charge a "forums surcharge" when you buy their software. Lots of people buy their products and never use the forums and shouldn't have to pay for forum moderators. When they first opened these forums, they had a subset that allowed wide-open discussion of pretty much anything. It basically backfired and caused a lot of ill-will within the subset of cakewalk customers who use these forums. Creating a better version does cakewalk no good whatsoever. They don't save any money, they don't make any money, they don't create better products with more features or improved stability, they don't achieve anything except paying to provide a space for some of their customers to discuss stuff that they could discuss anywhere. That would make sense if cakewalk were a forum company, but it's not. It's a recording software company.
Cheers.

Well, Cake certainly has the "potential" to increase their profits by the intelligent and judicious use of these forums. They can gain valuable insight into how to craft Sonar, etc... to best appeal to their target demographics. Many new features have surely had their genesis on these forums. And I'd even suggest that Cake "saves" money on their tech support by having many questions settled here rather than there. Just a thought. But, as to the disscussion here, as Yep says, Cake is a software company...not a forum company.