lurgan liar
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New York Compression On Drums
Hey guys... Need a bit of help with compressing drums... I read this in the Mixing Engineer's Handbook... but i can't seem to be able to work out how to do it in Sonar.... Here is the excerpt from the book... ..." The New York Compression Trick One of the little tricks that seems to set the new york mixers apart from everyone else is something i call the "New York Compression Trick". It seems like every mixer who's ever mixed in New York City comes away with this maneuver. Even if you don't mix in NYC, once you try it you just might find yourself using this trick all the time, since it is indeed a useful method to make a rhythm section rock. Here's the trick: 1) Buss the drums, and maybe even the bass, to a stereo compressor.
2) Hit the compressor fairly hard, at least 10dB or more if it sounds good.
3) Return the output of the compressor to a pair of fader inputs on the console.
4) Add a pretty good amount of high end (6-dB at 100 Khz or so) and low end (6-10dB at 100Khz or so) to the compressed signal.
5) Now bring the fader levels of the compressor up until it's tucked just under the present rhythm section to where you can just hear it.
The rhythm section will now sound bigger and more controlled without sounding overly compressed. ".... My question is this ...how exactly would i do this in Sonar 5 ... i'm not sure if i should be using SENDS....and i don't see how it is possible to RETURN the output of the compressor to a pair of faders in the console ... The only way i am able to do this is by SENDING a "dry" Drum Buss to the "compressed" Buss which i then SEND to the "EQ" Buss ... Is there a more efficient way of doing this? Please Help... 
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ffaudio
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 13:34:34
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This is also called parallel compression if I'm not mistaken.
I just make a bus that's the 'comp bus' or whatever you want to call it. Send all of your tracks normally to the main bus (or whatever) and then do sends on the drums you want to compress to the comp bus. Then route that bus to the main bus, also. The fader for that bus will be the volume of the compressed drums.
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mr. moon
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 13:41:52
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ORIGINAL: lurgan liar
..."The New York Compression Trick
My question is this ...Please Help...
Search the Sonar forum, I know there was a post about this not too long ago where the technique for Sonar 5 was described in great detail. -mr moon
Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600 4 GB 800MHz DDR2 RME FireFace 800 Windows 64 Pro "...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon
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Rothchild
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 13:57:18
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Also if you search through the guest moderator forum at gearslutz.com there is a lot of stuff by michael brauner who's taken the idea of new york compression to some pretty extreme ends.
Basically (and as far as I understand it!) he sets up the busses on his desk with different classic compressors and then uses aux sends to feed them, so he gets varying 'thicknesses / textures' (for want of a better way of putting it) as his mix runs through, imagine having 4 stereo busses that are respectively tuned for bass, mid, high and one for grit. having the comps on auxes means that when you ride the fader you don't just alter the level but also the saturation.
I think it's gonna be a lot more fun on a real desk or with a really good remote control, but it is do-able in sonar with busses and sends as described above by ffaudio.
Child
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mr. moon
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 14:11:36
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Intel Core 2 QUAD Q6600 4 GB 800MHz DDR2 RME FireFace 800 Windows 64 Pro "...Think outside the box as you mix within!" -mrmoon
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John T
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 14:25:56
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What everyone else said, basically.
The step of returning the buss output to console faders can be skipped: this is only relevant to consoles where the busses don't have their own faders, but have a "RETURN" control instead, but the Sonar console does have buss faders, so you don't need to worry about that part.
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LettuceCheese
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 16:40:31
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Similarly, you could also submix your rhythm section, and slam and mix to taste.
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Middleman
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 16:44:43
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Michael Brauer's method is all about treating various frequency ranges with their own compressor. Instruments or tracks with similar ranges get their own specific compressor applied and more importantly, the part of the range he does not want compressed gets passed out to the main buss with minimal or no amount of compression.
Oh and you can't route an aux bus back to channel faders within Sonar, I wish it were true. To do this you have to actually route out your soundcard and then back in creating a new track which takes input from the loop. Another method would be to create clean aux buss along with a compressed aux buss for drums and then route both to your main buss which is then routed to your soundcard. This way you can mix the levels of clean track with compressed track. There are some more ways of doing this in Sonar but those are the ways that come to mind.
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sammyp
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/17 21:17:55
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Dude, that technique works great, i learned it from that book as well. I just about soiled myself when i heard how good it sounded. Here it is; 1. Create a stereo buss called DRUMS and create a stereo buss called DRUM COMP 2. Output all individual drum tracks to the DRUMS buss. Output both stereo busses to your MASTER buss. 3. Put a SEND on the DRUMS buss to the DRUM COMP buss. Activate your send. 4. Put your favorite compressor on in the effects box on the DRUM COMP. Set the ratio to 10:1 plus. Adjust the threshold so your compressing about 6 db or better. Lengthen the attack so the TRANSIENTS (intial drum attack) are allowed to sound. You don't want the comp jumping on the stick attack too quickly. Lengthen the release so there is NO pumping or breathing. 5. adjust your comp gain up 3-6 db. 6. Blend the DRUMS buss with DRUM COMP buss to taste - don't overdoo the comp buss. 7. Feel impressed by how PRO you now sound. Edit: Oh i almost forgot! You want to further excite the mix by putting an EQ on the COMP DRUMS buss and gently boost ( Q approx 1) the highs and lows a few DB. 80-100 hz and 10,000 hz. don't overdoo it! It's too noticable if you do. FYI: this technique was actually pioneered by Motown mix engineers working on vocals. Throughout the years it's become popular on vocals, drums and bass. The Aphex Aural Exciter was designed to simulate this technique.
post edited by sammyp - 2006/08/17 23:42:20
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Frank Haas
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/18 00:14:22
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so true,
I experimented with the ny/parallel-compression yesterday..
I also had a touch of keyboard and guitar routed to the compressed buss.
Keep in mind that it makes a difference if you eq your signal before or after the compressor. That's why I added another EQ-Buss, which eq's the Comp-Buss..
So, all Drumtracks->Comp-Buss->EQ-Buss->Master Out
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TheFingers 
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/18 03:55:13
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ORIGINAL: lurgan liar
Hey guys... Need a bit of help with compressing drums... I read this in the Mixing Engineer's Handbook... but i can't seem to be able to work out how to do it in Sonar....
Here is the excerpt from the book...
..."The New York Compression Trick
One of the little tricks that seems to set the new york mixers apart from everyone else is something i call the "New York Compression Trick". It seems like every mixer who's ever mixed in New York City comes away with this maneuver. Even if you don't mix in NYC, once you try it you just might find yourself using this trick all the time, since it is indeed a useful method to make a rhythm section rock.
Here's the trick:
1) Buss the drums, and maybe even the bass, to a stereo compressor.
2) Hit the compressor fairly hard, at least 10dB or more if it sounds good.
3) Return the output of the compressor to a pair of fader inputs on the console.
4) Add a pretty good amount of high end (6-dB at 100 Khz or so) and low end (6-10dB at 100Khz or so) to the compressed signal.
5) Now bring the fader levels of the compressor up until it's tucked just under the present rhythm section to where you can just hear it.
The rhythm section will now sound bigger and more controlled without sounding overly compressed. "....
My question is this ...how exactly would i do this in Sonar 5 ... i'm not sure if i should be using SENDS....and i don't see how it is possible to RETURN the output of the compressor to a pair of faders in the console ...
The only way i am able to do this is by SENDING a "dry" Drum Buss to the "compressed" Buss which i then SEND to the "EQ" Buss ...
Is there a more efficient way of doing this?
Please Help...
IMO, there's no set EQ parameters that need be followed: to add to my creativity using parallel compression, I tend to analyze the source track to pick out it's individual components/attributes, and judge whether one component or another needs to be enhanced, or subdued. This is when you may decide whether to use sends, or a track cloning (having the advantage of a seperate fx bin), and subsequent busses to get where the sound needs to be. My .02
post edited by TheFingers - 2006/08/18 04:12:48
1973 "A" neck. I'd rather be playing Bass:
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TheFingers
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/18 04:04:59
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ORIGINAL: sammyp
Dude, that technique works great, i learned it from that book as well. I just about soiled myself when i heard how good it sounded. Here it is;
1. Create a stereo buss called DRUMS and create a stereo buss called DRUM COMP
2. Output all individual drum tracks to the DRUMS buss. Output both stereo busses to your MASTER buss.
3. Put a SEND on the DRUMS buss to the DRUM COMP buss. Activate your send.
4. Put your favorite compressor on in the effects box on the DRUM COMP. Set the ratio to 10:1 plus. Adjust the threshold so your compressing about 6 db or better. Lengthen the attack so the TRANSIENTS (intial drum attack) are allowed to sound. You don't want the comp jumping on the stick attack too quickly. Lengthen the release so there is NO pumping or breathing.
5. adjust your comp gain up 3-6 db.
6. Blend the DRUMS buss with DRUM COMP buss to taste - don't overdoo the comp buss.
7. Feel impressed by how PRO you now sound.
Edit: Oh i almost forgot! You want to further excite the mix by putting an EQ on the COMP DRUMS buss and gently boost ( Q approx 1) the highs and lows a few DB. 80-100 hz and 10,000 hz. don't overdoo it! It's too noticable if you do.
FYI: this technique was actually pioneered by Motown mix engineers working on vocals. Throughout the years it's become popular on vocals, drums and bass. The Aphex Aural Exciter was designed to simulate this technique.
sammyp, you're one of the few on this forum with the cahoneys to discuss comp attack and release times. Sound like you got your head around it better than most! I like your 7 step program for comp addicts.
1973 "A" neck. I'd rather be playing Bass:
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sammyp
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RE: New York Compression On Drums
2006/08/18 07:06:42
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Thanks TheFingers, mixing notes and texts have been replacing guitar mags for a couple of years now for my bathroom reading. That's where the mind clears and things start clicking for me! 
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