Anyone ever use their damper pedal with Dimension Pro?

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TyrantT316
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2006/09/24 18:32:40 (permalink)

Anyone ever use their damper pedal with Dimension Pro?

I went out to my local music store to find a volume pedal controller or another sustain pedal (to control the MIDI matrix from the AUX pedal jack on my digital piano). They didn't have either and all they had was a KORG DSH1 half damper pedal. This pedal is not triggering any of those effects like I thought it would. The music store is closed, so I cannot return it. I just want to know if this damper pedal SHOULD be able to control "something". When I put it in the sustain pedal jack, it doesn't control the sustain either.

Sounds kind of dumb, but I honestly went under the assumption that this pedal would do everything the sustain pedal does in addition to controlling the damper.
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    b rock
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    RE: Anyone ever use their damper pedal with Dimension Pro? 2006/09/25 08:38:20 (permalink)
    I just want to know if this damper pedal SHOULD be able to control "something". When I put it in the sustain pedal jack, it doesn't control the sustain either.
    Hmm. We're going to have to trace the controller signal flow end-to-end. First off (if you're using Dimension Pro), check that the loaded patch has Sust/Sust set to On/On (in the Multisample editor). That'll prevent any CC#64 or CC#66 messages from getting to the patch. Another thing to check is whether there's any toggles associated with that jack in your transmitting keyboard. Here I can't help you, but there may be a spot buried in the KB operating system that deals with the control jacks and their functions. Sometimes, you may have to plug in the pedal before powering up; sometimes after power-up.

    One quick diagnostic is to use DP's MIDI Learn. Right-click on any knob in any patch, and select MIDI Learn. Press on the sustain pedal, and you should see the control jump to full value. Right-click again, and you should see "MIDI Learn - CC#64" displayed (among other things). If the knob didn't jump to full throw, but CC#64 is displayed, try ticking the Reverse toggle under MIDI Learn. Make sure to "MIDI Forget" when you're done with this little experiment.

    If you have a Cakewalk host app, there's an MFX MIDI Monitor that you can load in a track to see what's being transmitted through it. Go here to TenCrazy.com, and download the donationware MFX PortDiag. Follow the installation instructions, and load it in a MIDI track. With one kind of pedal "polarity", you should see something like this, when pressing and releasing the pedal:

    Ch. 01 Controller 64 -> 0 Hold Pedal Time:0
    Ch. 01 Controller 64 -> 127 Hold Pedal Time:0


    Your pedal may transmit continuous values instead of "On/Off switch" behavior. If that's the case, you'll see a load of CC#64 messages with values between 0-127. Under the opposite "polarity", the values after "->" above will be flipped. This may be part of the problem, as some pedals are wired differently. In the same place at TenCrazy, look for the MFX SustainFix plugin. It's meant to address this very issue. Even if this is the case, though, you should've gotten some response out of the pedal, but with unexpected (reversed) results.

    If you're using a host other than something from Cakewalk, I do have a link to a standalone MIDI monitor. Let's see if something else works first, because that one uses hexidecimal MIDI notation, and it can get confusing. I suppose another diagnostic would be to use the MIDI Matrix in DP with a destination that can't be missed. Setting up a line like the following will shift the pitch of your loaded Multisample up an octave:

    CC#64 -> Pitch1 -> 1200 (cents) -> 0.0
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    Nick P
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    RE: Anyone ever use their damper pedal with Dimension Pro? 2006/09/25 09:28:42 (permalink)
    Actually, flux capacitor aside, it's not quite as intense as Mr. Brockway mentioned.

    First of all, what keyboard are you trying to use the sustain pedal with?

    This polarity thing has been a bugaboo since the 1980s when MIDI first came on the scene. Yamaha and Roland of course had opposite polarities. Korg....um, I'm not sure which polarity they chose.

    The easiest thing is to get the right pedal. One that is designed to work with your keyboard. If it is a digital piano, then start by making sure the sustain pedal sustains notes when connected to the keyboard and the pedal is depressed. If, without touching the pedal, all the notes sustain, you know you've got the wrong pedal.

    Once that's under control, almost universally, when the proper pedal is connected to the sustain jack, then the MIDI sustain command (CC 64) is sent out via the MIDI out jack. If you want that to be re-routed to do other things with your softsynths and/or hardware synths, you have to set that up in those various instruments. For example, you could set up a routing where Dimension Pro sees your sustain pedal on command (CC 64 with a value of 127) and routes that to MIDI volume (CC 7). That would be a pretty impractical usage, but you could do it.

    That's the whole point of this recent tidal wave of MIDI controllers with gobs of knobs and sliders. You can assign each one to control a parameter on your synthesizer via one of these MIDI CC (control change) commands.

    Consult a good MIDI reference to learn about MIDI Control Change Numbers and what they usually control. Here's a link to what looks like a good beginner article on Scott Garrigus' excellent digifreq web site:

    http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/article.asp?ID=45
    post edited by Nick P - 2006/09/25 09:46:03

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    TyrantT316
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    RE: Anyone ever use their damper pedal with Dimension Pro? 2006/09/25 20:51:46 (permalink)
    Thanks guys. I pretty much realized on Sunday that this pedal was not going to be compatible with my Yamaha P140. I guess it is just one of those pieces that will only work with KORGs/Tritons. I kind of assumed that it would at least work as a sustain pedal, but it doesn't even function at that when in my sustain jack.

    Hey Nick P, thanks for the reference. I actually am getting a MIDI controller (M-Audio Axiom 49) once I RA some other piece of software with Sweetwater. In the meantime, I was just looking for a temporary solution and expected to go down to my local music store to find a $20 sustain pedal and walked out with an $80 KORG damper pedal that is not compatible. So I will have to return it as well. I can't wait until that Axiom arrives.
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