Greek2Me
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Did I kill my EMU 0404
Hey gang! I've been using Music Creator 2003 for a couple of years now with a Soundblaster card and decided to upgrade to an EMU 0404. After about 2 weeks of messin around with it I fianlly got sound, but not at ALL what I expected. The first songs played like cheap speakers at max volume smothered in pillows! I (ignorantly) assumed you would set levels at 1/2 to 2/3 and adjust from there, but on several occasions this absolutly PEGGED my level monitors (but STILL played minimal volume) and I'm afraid I might have "blown" the sound card, like overdriving speakers. From other forums I get the impression that things with "db" associated with them (recording levels as opposed to volume levels?) should be set anywhere from -6db to -3db and a MAXIMUM of 0 (flat?). Now I get better sound, but after a few minutes of playback (and generally when I'm not fiddlin with a control at the time) the playback will suddenly slow, get jerky, or both, and start sounding like the blaring speakers in pillows again. I'm concerned that I did something to the card during the accumulated time I spent trying to pry those sound levels down from the stratosphere. If I damaged it, I don't want to approach the manufacturer for a replacement, but if my actions didn't have anything to do with it, could it still be a "bad" card? I've reseated it in the PCI slot, checked cables and connections, all seems ok. Your thoughts? On a potentially related topic.... The manual advises users to get a headphone amp (WHAT???) because the card does not support 'phones. Yet the diagram show desktop speakers hooked directly into the output cable. I've used the speakers as monitors and the headphones whenever my wife says "Will you knock it OFF up there????" (Anybody ELSE with THAT experience?). Anyway... Is it possible that this contributed to my issue? Thanks for your help RMc
post edited by Greek2Me - September 23, 06 9:56 PM
Ginoskein auton kai gnoridzo auton, touto ho skopos moi To know Him, and to make Him known, this my goal.
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Jamz0r
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 23, 06 8:09 PM
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Well, I'm not sure exactly what your problem is, but usually when people have trouble with EMU cards, it's all due to a misconfigured "session". Try firing up a "default" multitrack session and see if it works better.
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Jamz0r
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 23, 06 8:15 PM
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Yeah, you do need a headphone amp with the 0404...if not, you'll get a very low level in the phones. My 1820m has one in the breakout box. Don't let Patchmix discourage you though, it's extremely flexible and easy to use once you learn it.
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Greek2Me
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 23, 06 9:13 PM
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Jam, I don't think it CAN be the session. It doesn't make sense that a song would play several measures, then go to the dogs. Seems like the WHOLE song would be that way if I had misconfigured. I was wondering if, after it "warms up", the damage becomes apparent. That still doesn't tell me if it was defective from factory or if I fried it. I suppose the short question is: can you fry a sound card by having record levels or volumes set to high, even for a short period? Like "blowing" your speakers by playing the volume at max? Thanks
post edited by Greek2Me - September 23, 06 9:59 PM
Ginoskein auton kai gnoridzo auton, touto ho skopos moi To know Him, and to make Him known, this my goal.
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Jamz0r
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 23, 06 11:12 PM
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Hmm, like if it could be clipped to death? lol Interesting question. Maybe you are having other issues, such as latency. Maybe there is a some sort of memory leak on your system that makes your processing power decrease as plugins start up, etc... Just grasping at straws, but make sure your hardware is all configured properly. Do you have onboard audio on your motherboard? Is it disabled completely? To install my EMU, I had to disable mine in BIOS. Good luck.
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bbdude
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 23, 06 11:25 PM
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Greek, You did not mention what you're using as input for recording. You want to have a line-level input going into your 1/4" inputs. That would be supplied by a preamp, mixer, or some other line-level device like a keyboard or a guitar modeler (eg Pod) output. In each case gain staging is important. Be sure you are getting a reasonable signal (peaking -6 to -3 dB below 0dB fullscale, never clipping) through the front end of your preamp / mixer, etc, using its meter, while adjust the preamp gain / mixer trim. Then the next step of the gain staging is to adjust the output level of your preamp / mixer while watching your Patchmix channel strip meters. If you are having trouble keeping the Patchmix inputs from clipping (meters hitting 0 dB), try setting the E-MU input sensitivity to +4 dBu. Conversely, if you are unable to get your average level into Patchmix high enough, if your sensitivity is set to +4 dBu, set it down to -10 dBV. If Music Creator is your recording app, open it up and setup a track with the ASIO channel send from your EMU / patchmix channel strip as its recording input. Arm record on that track and look at your meter in the recording app. Again, the meter should peak -6 to -3 dB below 0dB fullscale. Now do a couple of minutes of recording. Go back and look at the waveform and ensure it was recorded at reasonable average level and not clipped. If you are using one of the above described line-level inputs, then it is unlikely you damaged your EMU. It has some protection against excessive input voltages; however, if the gain staging was way-off, you could have severly clipped your previous recordings, which would surely result in crappy sound. If you've accomplished all the above successfully, and you are still having sound quality problems, then it may be with your monitoring setup. The 0404 outputs are also line-level. They can drive powered monitors or powered PC speakers or a home stereo line-level input. If you use a home stereo, you can then use its headphone output to drive your headphones. You can control the volume to your monitors a number of different ways -- probably easiest to use the volume slider on the output bus from your recording app. You can check your monitoring separate from your recording, by playing a CD on your PC, and un-mute the Windows Wave channel strip into your EMU patchmix mixer. If you are still getting crappy sound, check what you are trying to drive with your EMU 0404 outputs. It can't directly drive headphones or passive speakers (powered speakers are OK).
post edited by bbdude - September 23, 06 11:42 PM
Bob the bbdude RME FF-UFX , RME FF800 DAW PC built by ADK , Core i7 3770 IVB Sonar X3e Producer, Win 7-Pro 64-bit
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Greek2Me
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 24, 06 0:20 PM
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My only input device is a Fatar 610+ MIDI controler (no onboard sounds, only a MIDI trigger). I havn't EVEN gotten 'round to trying my acoustic guitar or a mike since the "big upgrade". Right now, input isn't the issue, PLAYBACK is. I'm just trying to play songs created on MC 2003. Some of them sound oK and then fall apart, others play back crappy from first measure. I really don't think it's an issue with the file (since it played FINE on my old setup) and don't think it's configuration either. As I said above, why would a song play halfway thru then change sound if I didn't even touch a control or slider? Seems like it's a hardware issue and I'm just questioning whether playback at high levels damaged it or was it defective from the factory. Electronic things are so tricky. USUALLY it's all or nothing, isn't it? I mean, a thing either works or it DOESN'T. How can I test for an intermittent problem to see if the device needs replaced? And can I establish whether I damaged it or it was/is defective from factory? I suppose I could remove the card and try playback using my onboard sound chip to eliminate the software or file as the culprit. I did this when I initially couldn't get output from the EMU card and it played just fine. But that still won't help me determine if I damaged it or not, it will only establish that it is a malfunctioning card. Thanks for your input. The EMU Wave Mixer is a new animal to me, and I'm concerned that this could be where I could have overloaded the signal. As I said above, I didn't realize db settings are typically BELOW zero, and was pushing them higher and higher because I has low volume (barely audible). No matter WHAT the card problem, I definitely need to get some tutorials (or forum help) on using this correctly. If I do wind up shelling out another hundred buck, I want to know if I did something wrong there and avoid repeating it. Thanks again. RMc
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Clydewinder
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 24, 06 0:53 PM
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did you run the Wave Profiler in the options/audio menu after installing the card? are you using ASIO driver mode or WDM? the e-mu stuff works much better in ASIO. i don't think it is possible to destroy a sound card by sending any kind of signal through it no matter how loud. i would try a different PCI slot, the one you are using may be shared with hard drives, video, USB, who knows what.
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Greek2Me
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 24, 06 1:17 AM
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Boy, Clyde, I sure hope you're right that I can't destroy it with signal. Sure wish more could confirm this. I ran wave profiler and now have many references to E-DSP 1/2, E-DSP 3/4, etc. I can insert FX as Edirol (which I am told is correct), but I don't understand why E-DSP keeps showing up as ONLY option, particularly as the Out device of my audio track and in the Mixing Device of my Windows Volume control. I've thought about switching PCI slots. It's a brand new 'puter, so that BETTER not be the issue. I've disabled the "Use MME even when WDM is available" option, but not sure where to enable ASIO drivers. A little help there? Thanks! RMc
Ginoskein auton kai gnoridzo auton, touto ho skopos moi To know Him, and to make Him known, this my goal.
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Clydewinder
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 24, 06 11:02 AM
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yeah you are using WDM if it says E-DSP. the ASIO driver option should be in the audio section of the options menu. the windows volume control thing is different, E-DSP is ok there. it's just the E-MU stuff really needs the ASIO mode to fully use patchmix and the best latency. i don't have music creator but i assume the audio setup should be similar to SONAR. i would start up your music creator software, hit F1 ( help ) and search for ASIO and see what comes up. if you HAVE to use WDM drivers it should still work, but for me Sonar and Project 5 both work better with the EMU card in ASIO mode. the PCI issue is not any kind of fault or broken stuff, it's just a fact that certain PCI slots share IRQs with various devices. you certainly don't want to share your audio stream with your hard disk controller or video card as that splits up the available bandwidth. one other possibility: check the emu website and make sure you have the newest driver for your card. i think it might be version 1.82 but i'm not 100% sure.
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Jamz0r
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 24, 06 7:32 PM
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I'm using V 1.81 I guess there could be an update, but I haven't received notice of it. Yeah, I highly doubt you damaged the EMU with any type of overloading. You may just have one of the playback strips set improperly. When you notice the bad sound, have PatchMix up on screen and check for any clipping in the different strips...such as WAVE 1/2, or ASIO 31/32...or in your case, WDM? I'd definitely use ASIO drivers and set that latency down below 10ms. For multitracking, I have mine set to 4ms, and can record and playback without issues. I would wager this is where the problem lies. I assume you are using powered computer speakers...as you should be...whether they be monitors or not. Good luck.
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Greek2Me
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RE: Did I kill my EMU 0404
September 24, 06 8:37 PM
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Yes, the speakers are powered and (DUH) it didn't occur to me that headphones are NOT, hence my having to drive levels way up to hear it there. I hope that didn't overload anything seriously. I will look into the headphone amp and am downloading the driver updates as we speak (type?). Anyway, thanks for all your great suggestions. I'll let you know how it shakes out. RMc
Ginoskein auton kai gnoridzo auton, touto ho skopos moi To know Him, and to make Him known, this my goal.
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