Wav Conversion Prob

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Drumz
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2006/11/08 19:01:51 (permalink)

Wav Conversion Prob

Hello Folks
I have a project in SHS4 that I'm trying to convert to a wav file. I can convert the mix successfully but when I test play it back in windows media player the vocals are barely audible. The vocals are fine in SHS4 before I convert to wav. Their are 14 tracks in this mix, two are vocals. Everything but the vocals comes out fine. I have gradually reduced the volume 9db's on all tracks except vocals and the problem has improved but it's not acceptable yet. Am I approaching this the right way or am I overlooking something? Is this a common problem?
#1

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    RobertB
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/08 20:31:53 (permalink)
    Drumz,
    I assume you mean you are Exporting your mix to a wav? What settings are you using in the Export window?
    Check the routing inside SHS4, and make sure the vocal tracks aren't being sent somewhere different from everything else.i.e, is everything routed to the Master bus?

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #2
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/08 20:39:36 (permalink)
    Robert, yes I am exporting the mix to wav file. The settings are 441, 24 bit, entire mix. The vocals are there with effects in the wave, just not at the volume that they should be.
    #3
    RobertB
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/08 20:51:41 (permalink)
    Just for grins, try setting Source Category to Buses, so that only the master shows up. And uncheck Fast Bounce.
    Let us know if that helps.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #4
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 00:07:21 (permalink)
    Robert, I tried what you suggested and master doesn't show. Nothing shows, the box is empty. I also tried main outs with Fast Bounce unchecked and the vocals volume was close to where it needs to be in volume but the rest of the mix was still minus 9 db's from where it is right in SHS.

    I don't know if this has anything to do with it but these are the results when I'm exporting to Windows Media Advanced Streaming Format. When I export to RIFF it won't play at all. I get a message that Windows Media Player does not recognize the codec's. I get the same message when I try to play the RIFF in Pyro.

    #5
    Jamz0r
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 00:58:36 (permalink)
    Try exporting a 16bit wav and see if that plays ok.

    Maybe your media software is lacking...

    Winamp is my favorite player.
    #6
    RobertB
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 01:06:35 (permalink)
    Hmmm. In your project, what is the output of the audio tracks set to?
    Do you know what version of Windows Media Player you have. You might need to update it. The RIFF wav's should play.
    What version of DirectX are you running? That may have something to do with it also.
    This is probably an easy fix, there's just something that we aren't seeing.
    Edit: You snuck in under me jamz, and I think you may have hit the nail. I could see the forest if it weren't for all these stinkin' trees
    post edited by RobertB - 2006/11/09 01:26:34

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #7
    TheFingers
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 01:56:37 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Jamz0r

    Try exporting a 16bit wav and see if that plays ok.

    Maybe your media software is lacking...

    Winamp is my favorite player.

    You're correct WMP doesn't like the 24 bit file without a proper codec, codecs are available free on the internet but beware, some codec packages install other stuff, and don't provide an uninstaller.

    1973 "A" neck.

    I'd rather be playing Bass:
    #8
    TheFingers
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 01:58:59 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Drumz

    Hello Folks
    I have a project in SHS4 that I'm trying to convert to a wav file. I can convert the mix successfully but when I test play it back in windows media player the vocals are barely audible. The vocals are fine in SHS4 before I convert to wav. Their are 14 tracks in this mix, two are vocals. Everything but the vocals comes out fine. I have gradually reduced the volume 9db's on all tracks except vocals and the problem has improved but it's not acceptable yet. Am I approaching this the right way or am I overlooking something? Is this a common problem?
    This shouldn't be happening: look for a difference in the routing, between the way you're listening, and the way you're exporting.

    1973 "A" neck.

    I'd rather be playing Bass:
    #9
    Jamz0r
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 02:17:23 (permalink)
    Yes, maybe the effects, which may have level settings, could be unchecked in the export function settings...but it's been said that the vocals have effects...so maybe not...but it definitely seems to be a routing and/or settings issue.
    #10
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 12:29:03 (permalink)
    Try exporting a 16bit wav and see if that plays ok.

    Maybe your media software is lacking..

    JamzOr, I'll try 16 bit but I feel I should be able to export to wav in 24 bit. From what I've read and understand the sound quality is degraded using 16 bit. My software should be up to date. I'm using a new computer.


    Robert, all outputs are set the same, Presones Firepod 1L... I'm not sure what version of WMP I have but it should be the latest. The problem is the same in Pyro. This shouldn't be an issue with the volume problem because the volume is ok with all tracks except the vocals... I'm not sure what DirectX is so I can't answer that.


    TheFingers, ha ha, cool name. The way I'm listening and the way I'm routing is the same as far as I can tell.


    Thanks for the help that you all are trying to give me. I will try exporting in 16 bit, although I don't think I should have to. I also have to solve the RIFF problem.
    #11
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 16:19:28 (permalink)
    I was able to export my project to wav using WMASF and RIF with 16 bit depth. and both played fine in windows media player. I still had to leave all tracks except the two vocals minus 9db from the original mix in SHS. I think I need to try another player as suggested to see if their is any difference. I also have to decide on a MP3 encoder. I have seen a variety of choices, anyone have any suggestions on which way to go with that choice?
    #12
    Jamz0r
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 16:27:55 (permalink)
    CDex is a good free audio converter. It's all I've used for years.
    http://cd-to-mp3.audiolaunch.com/cd-ripper/cdex_151.exe

    As for your track levels being different during export than they are while mixing...something in your track/aux/bus settings has got to be the problem...or even the export settings...which tracks/aux/busses/envelopes/pans/etc etc are turned on or off... It doesn't make sense otherwise.
    #13
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 19:16:03 (permalink)
    Jamz, thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

    It doesn't make sense to me either. I'll keep searching to see if I can nail the problem down. It's frustrating to get the mix the way I want it and then have to keep going back to readjust everything.
    #14
    RobertB
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/09 20:46:31 (permalink)
    Drumz,
    Can you post a screen shot of your SHS track view w/ I/O showing?

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #15
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/10 15:30:13 (permalink)
    Robert, I don't use my recording computer for the internet. I wouldn't know how to do that anyway and it's a pretty big deal to get it to where I can hook up to the internet.

    Here's another problem that I've run into. I made an MP3 of the song, listened to it and it sounds fine. Then I emailed it to myself ( another computer ). The song on the emailed MP3 fades in and out and sounds like crap. AOL wouldn't send it saying the file is too large ( 5.4 MB I think ) so I had to send it from an MSN account. Anyone else have this problem?
    #16
    holderofthehorns
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/10 16:37:07 (permalink)
    You may be experiencing phase cancellation on the vocals.
    Especially if you have applied stereo effects to the vocals or recorded them in stereo.

    To test for this: Play the project in SHS and set the main output to Mono. Still have vocals?
    If not, then the issue is indeed phase cancellation on the Vocal tracks.

    Try toggling the phase button on one or both of the tracks.
    Check the cancellation by switching SHS main output to Mono.

    Don't forget to switch back to stereo when you're done.

    Eric Anderson
    HolderOfTheHorns - It's a Viking thing.
    #17
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/10 23:30:15 (permalink)
    Holder, I did what you suggested and the vocals played in both stereo and mono. I recorded them in mono. I also checked each track individually and found one guitar track and the effects output in mono. I think that problem is solved now because I'm getting a good MP3 conversion now.

    Another thing that is happening now that wasn't before is the MP3 file is 9.1MB where as before it was 4.9MB. Also the song is 5:12 long and it's showing in the player 5:39. It plays the right amount of time though, 5:12.

    I seem to go from one maze to the next with this stuff. Maybe eventually I'll get it worked out.

    I guess I haven't worked out the problems after all. I exported to MP3 format and I felt like the MP3 sounded right when I played it using my Presones Firepod as my sound card. I loaded the song into Soundclick and it sounded like crap when I listened to it on another computer with an inboard soundcard. I guess I just need to start from scratch. Thanks to everyone who tried to help.
    post edited by Drumz - 2006/11/11 11:27:34
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    RobertB
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/11 16:26:35 (permalink)
    When you listen on Soundclick, make sure to use the Hi-fi or download the MP3. The Lo-Fi is very low bitrate and can do horrible things to your song.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    mcourter
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/11 21:29:57 (permalink)
    I've had just about the same problem: a project I've converted to MP3 plays fine here, but if I attach it to email, the vocals come out muffled........sometimes. Not always. I dunno why. When it happens I try it again.
    Mark

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    spaceboy
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/15 13:50:47 (permalink)
    Something I don't think anyone mentioned here was bouncing all tracks to a new stereo track before exporting.

    Drumz

    There may be something wrong in your original set up or routing, and it may take weeks to figure out. In the mean time, you could have gotten around the vocals too quiet issue by:

    highlighting all the tracks and bouncing them to a new stereo track.
    mute or archive everything else but new stereo track and your mix should sound identical to when you were playing all of the tracks previously.
    (I do this to do my mastering)

    then export only the stereo track to media player, and it should be all good.

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    #21
    Drumz
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    RE: Wav Conversion Prob 2006/11/15 19:01:28 (permalink)
    Thanks for that tip spaceboy, I'll give it a try...Drumz
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