A Quinn-Martin production

Funny lead in with that thread title. Interesting piece. Of the several of yours I've heard this is the most "gospel" sounding. I like the almost medieval sounding trumpet line. And the track that sounds like a recorder to me fits that same Middle Ages image.
Mark

Hi Beagle,Very sweet music.The tones used are sounding beautiful.But I miss the organ!
R.Chandrasekhar

Mark - thanks for the comments. The "recorder" you hear is actually a solo flute. 24 bit recorded sample. thanks for the listen and the feedback!

Bill Thanks for the comments. There's actually reverb on all three pieces individually. Myself, I think that the piano probably needs more, but the trumpet has a lot on it already and the way the samples were recorded, I don't have very much control over the reverb on it. I can change the wet/dry mix but that's all. The flute has a Lexicon verb on it, but I could adjust it to add some more if you think it's too dry. Thanks again for the feedback!

chase As always, I appreciate your comments and the time you spend to listen! I was hoping to modernize the piece a little by not using an organ this time. If it seems too stiff due to lack of organ (as james suggests), then I'll look into trying to loosen it up a little, but this time I kind of wanted to be without organ. Maybe it won't work, tho, I'll let you guys decide later.

James Thanks for the comments! Quinn-Martin was a hollywood producer years ago - big production. Lots of the older TV shows would have "A Quinn-Martin Production" announced at the beginning of the show. It's only funny to us geezers who are old enough to remember that far back!!!

I'll lookinto the timing thanks for the comments! I truly appreciate it!

Hi, Beagle--I've listened to both versions, and the second one sounded more satisfying to me. You added a pad under the electric piano in the second one I think? Not to drive you crazy, but reverb levels sound too wet for me in the second one, while I guess the first one was a bit dry--I think I'd prefer a compromise between the two.

Speaking of reverb, you said:

"...I don't have very much control over the reverb on it. I can change the wet/dry mix but that's all..."

I don't understand what you mean, since changing the wet/dry mix is what one always does to change reverb levels.--?

At first I was concerned with how the trumpet stays so constantly in the upper octaves, like a piccolo trumpet. But my ears adjusted to it--The trumpet is sounding better in the new mix.

I understand what James is talking about, concerning timing issues. The trumpet is still out of synch in that same area, around 0:30. With the sparse arrangement of keyboard, flute and trumpet, the timing becomes even more critical, and right now, the flute and trumpet are sounding like solos which aren't working in concert with each other. They tend to enter at different points and are often ending at different times. This latter thing would be a very good thing to edit--if they would end their phrases together, it would have a much more polished sound.

When I was listening to the first version, I felt I would have preferred a natural acoustic piano, but I like what you've done with your electric piano sound in the second mix.

One more thing that occurs to me--With the piano so gentle and staying away from the bass notes, and the two lead instruments also staying in the higher registers, I think I'd want to experiment with adding a low register instrument to help anchor the piece--Perhaps a good cello.

Thanks for the post. These simple old hymns present interesting recording challenges!

Randy
rbowser

Hello again, Beagle

Kay, I get ya on the limitations of that reverb situation. Why is that? You can't use the sound dry, and use whatever reverb you want inside Sonar--? Guess not.

Good, I think it'll be worthwhile to look at the cut off times for the two soloing instruments. But I didn't mean they were the only thing to look at. The trumpet is definitely behind at that 0:30 something spot, and other times. Looking in the Piano View at the start times for the flute and trumpet simultaneously will make it perfectly clear when they're not in synch, both at the start and end of notes.

You tried a Double Bass and didn't like it. Yes, I imagine that would've been too much. Those can be pretty dominating instruments. A cello, usually played an ocatve higher than the bass would be a better choice I think.

Randy
rbowser

Thanks so much, Stephen, I appreciate the encouragement, especially from those who are seasoned musicians like yourself!

randy,
here's a jpg of the PRV of that section. the marker at 17 shows where ~33:30 sec would be. This takes into account the part that I clipped off from the beginning of the project after export (where I have several empty measures at the beginning of the project). Using Audacity to verify by sound, this should be the same place as approximately 34 sec into the song on soundclick.



As you can see, the start times of the Flute (brown) and the Trumpet (magenta) are nearly exactly the same. When I check the properties of them, the difference between the two is only 2 ticks. That's actually closer than I like to have them. The difference is inaudible. I checked the rest of the notes in the two measures before and two measures after, just in case my calculations on the time is off. None of them are more than 10 ticks off from each other. I'm simply not finding any timing problems with start times between the flute and trumpet. I am not doubting your ears, I just simply can't find the problem.

There are times that I have deliberately offset the trumpet from the flute, but it's still on the beat, surely that can't be what you guys are having a problem with?! For example, at measure 18 (which is very close to where you're talking about), I deliberately extended the first note of the trumpet, made the 2nd note of the trumpet hit the beat at the same time as the THIRD note of the flute, making the trumpet sound like it's behind the flute in time. Could this possibly be what you mean? Why would that be wrong? This is a typical 'jazz' type trumpet solo phrase, I've heard this done in a lot of songs and even other genre besides jazz. I think it gives the solo a little flavor and dynamic expression and I'm not sure that it's considered "wrong" in music. Notice that the trumpet doesn't play note 6 of that measure and so it "catches back up" to the same timing as the flute in the next measure. See figure:



Surely this is not what you're talking about??

Thank you, Drumz! that's exactly what I was trying to convey! I appreciate the encouragement!

Thanks, Bill! If I do anything else to this I'll back off on the reverb some, but otherwise I may be done with it.

I appreciate your comments! They are always welcome! That includes everyone!