Is windows firewall enough?

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jrmunday
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2006/12/16 12:41:58 (permalink)

Is windows firewall enough?

Slightly off key with this but just a thought
I have just had to rebuild my DAW after a major problem - luckily nothing lost.
Occasionally I let it access the web.
I used to use the windows firewall AND Sygate Pro to protect.
I found Sygate a little tricky and not very transparent at times and so have not installed it.

Do you think the Windows one alone is safe enough?
I sometimes leave the machine unattended for long periods when sharing filles with my writing partner.

CbB, Splat, HP Pavillion i5, Win 10 64bit, 6G ram, Scarlett 8i6, Kontakt 5 plus a shed load of hardware, synths & guitars collected over 50 years.
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    xackley
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 13:00:57 (permalink)
    by default it will block all incoming. This means if nothing on your machine request a connection, it will be blocked.

    I would recommend a $50 hardware unit anyway. smc, d-link

    Also you NEED to have virus scanning turned on when accessing the internet, no way around it. Virus scan can be turned off (Exclude) for you audio folders, or disabled when not connected, and have Almost no impact on your recording and mixing performance.

    Also run Spybot every once in a while to make sure nothing it detects has not crept in.

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    #2
    gtullier
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 13:03:52 (permalink)
    The Windows XP firewall should more then sufice for protection of your machine. As with all decent firewall products you have significant control over what you allow to access your PC. You can lock it down so that othing get access or allow just file sharing. As with any security product, it's only as safe as you configure it to be. I recently loaded Microsoft's Onecare product to test out and have found it to be very transparent when running Sonar 6 Producer. I also use Lavasoft's Ad-Aware to keep tracking cookies off my system.
    #3
    kwgm
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 14:26:43 (permalink)
    In my dayjob, I've consulted in network security for many years, and I'll share my thoughts, fwiw.

    The main problem with most host-based firewall programs is they allow all outgoing connections. While Windows Firewall is good, you need more protection than simply the Windows firewall.

    The best defense strategy is a defense in layers. Ideally, you block malware at more than one level of entry, and if one barrier fails, then perhaps the next will block the bad packet.

    Let's start at your network border: how do you connect to the internet? Many small routers designed for home broadband use have built-in firewall programs. If so, learn about yours and turn it on.

    The best way to go is to use a stand-alone firewall device, that sits between your router and your LAN. These require both knowledge and maintenance, and require more effort than the casual user wants to exert. However, if you understand networking at a basic level, you can configure a hardware firewall as today's firewalls have sophisticated administration programs that make it easy.

    Finally, what does your ISP offer? Some will filter most malware for you as they don't want that garbage on their networks either--it sucks up a sizeable percentage of bandwidth. However, large ISPs, like the telephone companies or AOL, have tens of thousands of users, and many of them sources of malware. If they're already on the WAN, then you have to filter them.

    I like smaller ISPs for this very reason--they have a limited customer base. Also, the folks who run these outfits are very savvy when it comes to virus and malware threats.

    My ISP blocks most malware at their gateway. Look for a local ISP who will provide this service. Even if it costs more, it's worth it, believe me.

    What's my network look like?

    Because I live in the west with it's wide open spaces, I dont have wired broadband to my front door. In my area, and all over the country, really, there are alternate, wireless connections available. I have a microwave link to my ISP that gives me 1Mb/sec bandwidth, and it's very affordable compared to copper wire-based T1 or even DSL service.

    My ISP filters many nasty packets from the network. Then at my router, I use a Sonic firewall device to block almost everything. I have servers and expose a few standard service ports, but these reside on a separate network, called a DMZ, that has routable addresses. These servers are used simply to accept mail or serve webpages. They have no sensitive data. I use another router to serve NAT to my private LAN, from which I work. Behind this router is yet another firewall, and the LAN machines all reside on private addresses. Of course, each machine on the lan is configured securely, ie, they use standard devices like Windows file security and passwords, as well as running Windows Firewall, anti-virus and anti-spyware type programs to trap anything that might reach this area.

    By the way, you should be running the Automatic Updates service on your Windows machine, as security updates are released weekly (on Tuesdays) as they are resolved from the mothership in Redmond.

    I realize there were some buzzwords in there, so ignore what you don't need, but note the defense in depth. Layered defenses that trap or prevent specific attacks are essential to keeping clean in today's networked environment.

    I'd also recommend that everyone read the introductory information on www.microsoft.com/security.... and remember, when you are out at night, wear white.


    --kwgm
    #4
    Ognis
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 14:35:04 (permalink)
    I wouldn't. And if you don't, turn off auto updates. (I won't elab unless asked, because this has NOTHING to do with sonar).
    #5
    dcastle
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 15:49:40 (permalink)
    If you can pass https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 this test of your firewall then you're fine, but if not then you really need some hardware/software solution that can.

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    Anubis
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 16:13:41 (permalink)
    Just stay away from the porn sites this time and you'll be fine.

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    #7
    jrmunday
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 19:40:26 (permalink)
    Just stay away from the porn sites this time and you'll be fine.


    Okay thanks for that - I will.
    Its hard though, very hard!

    CbB, Splat, HP Pavillion i5, Win 10 64bit, 6G ram, Scarlett 8i6, Kontakt 5 plus a shed load of hardware, synths & guitars collected over 50 years.
    #8
    Jesse G
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 23:28:35 (permalink)
    I would suggest a NAT Router as well as using the XP firewall along side a Software firewall like Zone Alarm Pro from Zonelabs.com. The best software firewall IMHO.

    Peace

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    #9
    mattplaysguitar
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/16 23:58:10 (permalink)
    I would suggest a big NO to zone alarm. Dodgy program in my opinion. It once cause my computer to consistently give blue screen of death. Ive heard a few probs with it here and there. There are plenty more out there. Zone alarm probably would work fine, but i think its just safest to leave it alone.

    Sygate i do like. It has graphs that show all your details which can it can be usefull at times. Nice program sygate is i believe. That and windows should be fine. Also running spybot every now and again is a good idea.

    Goodluck!
    #10
    xackley
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/17 10:17:15 (permalink)
    And I would suggest using no software firewall on a DAW, unlike Virus scan it is an unnecessary evil that can be handled by a cheap piece of hardware.

    If you must use software, disconnect you ethernet cable, and shut off the firewall when working on music.
    I haven't tryied out Sygate since the freeware version, but I definitely saw a cpu hit.

    The other benefit of useing a hardware firewall is that you protect your entire house, and have created a network between your desktops. All you need to do then is make sure all your computers are in the same Workgroup, and create Shares.

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    Rev. Jem
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/17 19:35:09 (permalink)
    For more info on this subject & more, have a butcher's at this thread.
    #12
    Antler
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/18 07:27:26 (permalink)
    No. The windows firewall only protects you from inbound threats (and incidentally so does a hardware firewall). You want a software one so that you can check outbound connections as well; so you can stop key-logger programs trying to send home information for example.

    I would recommend ZoneAlarm Free. It has matured over the years and is likely to cause little system problems now.

    Another recommendation is Sunbelt's Kerio Personal Firewall. (Sunbelt aquired the firewall from Kerio.) http://www.sunbelt-software.com/Kerio.cfm

    It will give you a 30 day trail of the pro features, but will operate in 'free' mode after that.
    #13
    MandolinPicker
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/18 15:02:24 (permalink)
    Another thought on the subject. In my setup, I use three partitions; Windows, Linux and Data. The Windows partition is used for my DAW. It is not connected to the Internet. The Linux partition is my main work partition, and we browse the Internet, write papers, watch DVDs, etc. In fact, I am viewing this thread and posting while using Ubuntu Linux (and we have a similar setup on the laptop). The third partition is Data, formatted in FAT32 so it can be viewed by both the Windows and Linux OS.

    As Linux is not as wide spread as Windows, as well as some underlying coding, the chance of getting viruses, spyware, etc is significantly less in Linux. On the Windows side, since I don't access the Internet, I can turn off networking as well as other 'services' and that makes my DAW more efficient (considering it is a 5 year old Athlon XP 1GHz).

    If you go this route be advised Linux is different from Windows - not better, not worse - different. It operates differently. it takes a little time to learn it and understand how you do different things. Ubuntu (www.ubuntu.com) is a good distro to start with. It helps lower the learning curve.

    Just a thought

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    #14
    Sonic the Hedgehog
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/19 00:00:59 (permalink)
    Hi jrmunday,

    if you can, don't mix apples with oranges: never use your music production PC for other things other than music. Again, if you can, get a cheap second-hand PC for internet use.

    ''I work to live, but live to make music'' -Mahler
    #15
    Jesse G
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/19 17:41:33 (permalink)
    I agree with Sonic,

    Your DAW for Music creation shouldn't touch the internet. Have a cheap PC for internet access and request your updates and software registrations via e-mail. I don't dare use my DAW for internet use, even for updates unless it is a necessity, and I have not had to exercise that necessity yet.

    I don't have Zone Alarm, or Virus protection on my Main DAW, but for every other PC in the house, 8 total, they each have ZA and Norton Virus protection with the XP firewall turned on as well. If I share a file, it is downloaded to a test PC then scanned at that point. From there I transfer it to a server and then transfer it over to the DAW.

    My DAW is connected to the network using a Static IP Address and Subnet mask while the rest of the PCs on the network are DHCP server assigned.

    Separate your music machine it as much as possible.

    Peace

    Peace,
    Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
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    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
    #16
    Ognis
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/19 18:03:22 (permalink)
    Your DAW for Music creation shouldn't touch the internet. Have a cheap PC for internet access and request your updates and software registrations via e-mail. I don't dare use my DAW for internet use, even for updates unless it is a necessity, and I have not had to exercise that necessity yet.


    +1

    But, I have never had anytime I have had to update any daw software directly. I think for updates, either save them to a cd and keep them, or to a cd-rw, and just reuse it over and over then use that to update the DAW.


    No. The windows firewall only protects you from inbound threats (and incidentally so does a hardware firewall). You want a software one so that you can check outbound connections as well; so you can stop key-logger programs trying to send home information for example.


    +1 again... Thats why I said don't trust it at first, and would of explained, but since it was in the Sonar forum then, I didn't want to say much. I don't like ZA, because (at least it used to) leave ports wide open, even if in steth mode. The McAfee firewall that was out before this new one was the best I've seen. It even had a built in map fore tracert on inbound attempted connections (example - new york to washington dc to africa to you, all maped out, with full details, and whois, for every point).. The old McAfee firewall was amazing. But the new one is COMPLETE CRAP. So, I wouldn't know what to recomend now. I've always heard Norton is one of the worst of all though. I've heard many say even Tiny Firewall was better than Norton...
    #17
    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/19 22:51:16 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jrmunday

    Slightly off key with this but just a thought
    I have just had to rebuild my DAW after a major problem - luckily nothing lost.
    Occasionally I let it access the web.
    I used to use the windows firewall AND Sygate Pro to protect.
    I found Sygate a little tricky and not very transparent at times and so have not installed it.

    Do you think the Windows one alone is safe enough?
    I sometimes leave the machine unattended for long periods when sharing filles with my writing partner.


    that depends on whether you plan to download spyware. if you don't, then windows firewall is adequate in "no exceptions" mode.

    - jack the ex-cynic
    #18
    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: Is windows firewall enough? 2006/12/19 23:00:19 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: xackley
    And I would suggest using no software firewall on a DAW, unlike Virus scan it is an unnecessary evil that can be handled by a cheap piece of hardware.

    ...

    The other benefit of useing a hardware firewall is that you protect your entire house, and have created a network between your desktops. All you need to do then is make sure all your computers are in the same Workgroup, and create Shares.


    a router is indeed the best way to go, but for the sake of clarity:

    SOHO routers do not perform egress filtering (outbound traffic) out of the box. most of them can't even do it at all. the main benefit is that the hardware protects all connected computers and can't be turned off by spyware (escalating an already bad infection by exposing your computer to the internet).

    so for all of you saying "you need outbound traffic protection" please realize that you only need outbound program control if you don't have control over the programs on your own computer. if you lack such control then a dedicated non-networked DAW or a non-PC recorder is probably for you.

    it is possible to use SP2's firewall in "no exceptions" mode directly connected to the internet, and not have any problems. it's just not the best solution.

    - jack the ex-cynic
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