Great singer, but can't sing in studio...

Guys (and gals), I'm so frustrated. I'm a pretty dam good singer. Live, Ican bring people to tears. In the studio (with someone else recording and comping) I can sound like an angle. But in my studio, I sound like a dud. I've tried mixing it up. With click without. Vocals loud vocals soft. Verb no verb. Etc...I've tried it all. I just don't seem to sing well. I don't get it. When I perform live, I have zerro problems! I can sing all night, and never tire my voice. In the studio, it's just a mess and I sound like an amature. Anyway, maybe someone's got some tips for this very frustrated (borderline depressed) singer?

First, check here for my long answer to vocal recordings:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=830309&mpage=1&key=󋭣

Second, if it's that big of a deal, just have someone else record you. It's very hard to be engineer and performer at once and still get the best results.

Third, and please forgive me for asking, but is it possible that you have an unrealistic or distorted impression of your own voice? The human voice sounds very different from inside your head than from without. Many people are surprised to hear what their voice sounds like to the rest of the world. Moreover, many people who have a perfectly lovely voice are embarrassed to hear recordings of it because it sounds so different than what they hear in their heads. Some very talented, very famous singers have expressed embarrassment and insecurity about precisely the things that make them so unique and appealing.

Cheers.

Set your peaks below -6 db, and quit watching the monitor.

Loop record, long areas (like the whole song) so you don't feel like you have to do it right.

IOW, get setup so you can focus on the song and forget about technology.

Don't worry about technically perfect (perfect quite often really does suck).

The problem seems to be the feel, and my actual tuning and tone...so I guess the whole shebang. Live, with a 58 and some good room ambiance, the performace counts for so much, and I get the feeling that a 58, plus the loudness of the whole thing smooths things out a bit. However, I've had just as good a response playing my accoustic guitar without a mic. In the studio, I'm under a microscope. I hear every little flub, every little nuance that's out of place.
There has been some good advice for me here. Thanks. However, having someone else record me isn't really an option as I have a small fortune invested in my equipment, and I live in the middle of nowhere and no one really would be interested in helping me get through this.

ORIGINAL: liquidlove

...However, having someone else record me isn't really an option as I have a small fortune invested in my equipment, and I live in the middle of nowhere and no one really would be interested in helping me get through this.

I don't know what you mean by "middle of nowhere," but I bet there are people who would be extremely interested in doing the engineering work. Even if you're in Antarctica, I can put you in touch with some people. And if you already have the studio set up then all they have to do is work the desk. Check the back of CDs of local bands, and see who recorded them. A lot of people are surprised at how accessible and affordable the people whose names are on the back of CDs can be. Even the legendary Steve Albini will record pretty much anyone, and will work hard to figure out a price and arrangement that everyone can live with. Granted, he prioritizes things based on how interesting the project is to him, but his rates are a totally arbitrary sliding scale based on what the client can afford.

Now, if you really want to do it yourself and not involve anyone else, that's something else. But you owe it to yourself to look at things realistically. What you've said so far on this thread is:

1. You're an awesome singer. You have performed well on previous recordings and consistently perform well in live scenarios.

2. The only exception to all this is that you do not sing well when you also have to work the recording equipment.

To me, this adds up to a very clear and easy solution-- don't work the recording equipment while you're trying to sing. I guarantee there is a way to make this happen, if you want to.

If you look at the thread I linked to above, item number one, the most important part of getting a good vocal recording, is the psychological state of the singer. This is based on a lot of personal experience and I bet you five bucks you cannot find a professional audio engineer anywhere who will disagree. This is worth more than a million dollars of recording equipment. Read that again: it is worth more than a million dollars worth of recording equipment. If I had the choice between tracking a confident, relaxed, inspired singer through a radio shack mic into a mini cassette recorder, or tracking a tense, nervous, insecure singer through an AKG C12 into a vintage Neve console onto a 2" Studer machine with Fairchild compressors and Pultec equalizers, I'd take the confident singer every time and twice on Christmas.

If you record a nervous, insecure singer through the million-dollar chain and I record the same singer when she's relaxed and inspired through a cheap toy, then my recordings will beat your recordings a hundred times out of a hundred, and you won't be able to do a damn thing about it, not with all the fancy toys and books and videos and special techniques in the world.

I'm not trying to discourage you from home recording, nor am I trying to tell you what to do or how to do it. But if you really do know what the problem is, then you also know what the solution is. If you're still hoping the problem might turn out to be something else, well... it might. Best of luck either way.

Cheers.

Liquid,

Is it possible that you need an audience to bring out the feeling of your songs you are trying to get across. That when you perform live you are really talking to your audience to where you also feed off of there reaction as well as they feed off of your performing. Maybe if your could get a small audience to sing to, that can be quiet as you record, this will help. I like singing to someone other than just the mic. Also is it bright where you are trying to record? Maybe turn lights off or down to make it more natural to the places your perform at. I had to do this on a song I was trying to record with just me and my terrible guitar struming. I shut off all the lights except a light in another room that had a dimmer on it and turned it down low to just barely see. It helped. Anything to help forget about the job of recording and get into the mood of performing. Espercially if you are an emotional singer and not a technical singer. audience, lighting, your own mood, will all affect the performance of your songs even in a live situation. When things are just right and you hit a "grove" (connection) with the audience it seems like nothing can go wrong and you are at the top of your game. Try and set that same feeling in your studio, if nothing else, in your own mind to where that is what you visualize.

Maybe this wil help also.

Richard

I can't add much to the exceptional advice already stated here, but I will add this:

If you are used to singing in a live situation, through PA, wedges, sidefills, etc, then going into the studio and singing "under the microscope" can be a very different experience.

Also, the isolatory nature of headphones can be really un-nerving to people used to singing without them.

If pitch is a problem (in the studio), you might want to consider pulling one side of the cans off while you track so that you can hear your voice in the way you are normally used to, and not limited just to the isolation of the cans.

Many people - studio rookies and veterans alike - will do this trick. Sometimes it helps.

Also, don't be too critical of yourself to the point it becomes detrimental. Being self critical and wanting to do your best is admirable and is a good trait to have in this business, especially when this business as of late seems to have taken on an attitude of "yeah, that'll do"... but don't beat yourself up just for the sake of beating yourself up...LOL..is all I'm saying.

And, know that studio performance and live performance are two different beasts with their own unique facets.
As a live singer, you know you didn't get that part of performing pegged overnight. Don't expect the studio to be any different... it might take a little time to find your vibe.

Just a thought ...(or two)

-D.

You need to spend lots of money on more gear, better mics, preamps and a compressor. If that doesn't help then you actually are bad but you can use your gear to make money. If that doesn't work then at least you have something really cool to occupy your time.

Ok, Ok, in all seriousness, post some files and let some people dissect the problem with you.

i know the last post was a couple weeks old, but i just read it and had a little input.
You mentioned that you think the sm58 might have made a difference in your recording. Since you invested a "small fortune" I assume you have a decent vocal mic. Well, you could also pickup an sm58.

Set up the expensive voc mic at a comfortable distance (where you can close your eyes and not realize it is there). While you are recording, hold the sm58, and actually track both mics to tape.

You could even play around with mixing the two together in mixdown and see what kind of sounds you get.

Also it was mentioned earlier about the environment. Turn the lights down really low so that you are not distracted by the recording equipment (and so you will feel like you are more in your home than your studio). Basically, do whatever it takes to forget that you are recording, and just sing.

When you sing, you can't hear yourself properly. When you record it you can.
That is probably what you sound like all the time and you are not used to hearing it.
So many factors involved. So many people think they can sing until they hear a recording of themselves.

Which angle do you sound like? 45 degrees is pretty bad but 90 degrees is cool.

ORIGINAL: Sonar71

When you sing, you can't hear yourself properly. When you record it you can.
That is probably what you sound like all the time and you are not used to hearing it.
So many factors involved. So many people think they can sing until they hear a recording of themselves.

I think this is so true of people that haven't done much recording of their voice.

This is an interesting thread. Are there really 'Great Singers' that suck in the studio? I'm guessing that's the exception not the rule.

I've noticed the exact opposite, singers that sound good in the studio but not so good live.

I'd think just recording yourself a lot and listening to and analyzing your perfomance are the solution. That should make you more comfortable with the situation of home recording and should narrow the difference between perception and reality.

just sing until you get it perfect... try not to think "I don't sound right in the studio"... just take your time until you get that take your looking for, you can do it.

also, it might be as simple as the microphone... some mics sound like a recording of a voice, and some sound like... the voice. sounds off-the-wall but I've herd it many times.