If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors?

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Xfusion
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2007/01/04 18:12:02 (permalink)

If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors?

I am confused about this whole monitor thing (I'm just a beginner).

If I have a pair of headphone monitors, do I still need to have actual monitors? When I'm working on my music, I always wear my headphones anyway because I want to be completley sunk into the music and hear everything and I never use my regular speakers. So what I want to know is- do headphone monitors work as well as actual ones or not? If anything, I would think headphones would be better since it's right on top of your ears. And how much of a difference do you think monitors make from regular speakers?

Please keep in mind that I am by no means a professional and if I did get monitors, I would not spend more than $150 on them (I was looking at some M-Audio ones for $99).
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    Steve_Karl
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/04 18:25:44 (permalink)
    I do. You might not.

    Steve Karl
    https://soundcloud.com/steve_karl
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    #2
    RLD
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/04 18:27:18 (permalink)
    It all depends on where you are in your music career
    If you are a beginner, just learning the ins and out of DAW's you may not need them for now,
    but when you want to achieve a decent mix that sounds good on other speaker systems,
    you'll find your headphone mixes generally don't cut it.
    HERE is another thread on the same subject.

    RLD
    #3
    beatrack
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/04 20:20:55 (permalink)
    Do you ever notice how a painter, while in front of the canvas, steps back every once in a while and cocks his head a little and raises an eyebrow?

    That's the visual equivalent of "going to the monitors" for reference.

    You need that other perspective....especially in music because your ears are designed to hear audible queues from a soundstage that cannot be recreated with the proximity of headphone drivers.

    Try this:

    Take two small speakers.....computer speakers will do....and place them touching side by side on the table in front of you.

    Take a large cushion off the sofa and press it between them. (don't disturb Rex)

    Now place your nose on the other end of the cushion.


    View looking from above......

    [<
    ======0
    [<


    0 Your Head

    = Cushion

    [< Left and Right Speakers


    Listen to some music....especially something ambient.

    That's a soundstage!

    At times, with certain recordings, the soundstage will almost seem like a live performance...a much different experience than headphones.

    That's an extreme example to bring home the point of how speakers work in an almost ideal situation.....isolated from each other and in front of you.

    I have heard of some people who have a permanent setup though!


    http://besorgt.de/audio/ambiophonics




    post edited by beatrack - 2007/01/04 21:53:29
    #4
    themidiroom
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/05 10:47:45 (permalink)
    I always check mixes on headphones, but I'd never trust something totally done on headphones. You have to spend some real cash just to get headphones that are flat.

    The MIDI Room
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    #5
    mcourter
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/05 11:59:36 (permalink)
    With headphones, I can get what I think is a real good mix of a project...........until I play it over speakers. That makes it apparent where I'm off in the mix, at least as far as the volume levels of the individual tracks. I do a lot of my recording with phones because my setup is in the living room. But when I mix, it's with speakers.
    Mark

    A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2
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    #6
    Kicker
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/05 21:26:43 (permalink)
    There are two basic problems mixing with headphones.

    1. The stereo imaging (difference between left and right channels) is unrealistic in headphones. If you picture a normal monitor setup, some of the sounds from the right speaker will go into both ears and the same for the left. What ends up happening is that you will listen in your heaphones and think that the mix is really great with lots of separation and depth, but when you listen on regular speakers it sounds like everything is mushed up in the middle. Even though many people listen to music almost exclusively through headphones now, the circuits in the players are designed to make up for the unrealistic channel separation in headphones. You can get a sense of it by changing the Speaker Settings in the Sounds and Audio Devices control panel applet on your PC.

    2. Except for a few headphone models (one from Audio Technica and one from AKG are highly recommended by forum members - don't remember the exact model #s), headphones have serious deficiencies at reproducing the entire frequency spectrum accurately. Many headphones will artificially augment the bass frequencies to make up for the small size of the speaker itself. Also most headphones will have "holes" at frequencies that would sound harsh to the ears if they were present. This means that your mix may contain a lot of these frequencies that you will not hear in the headphones. When you play it on regular speakers it is very difficult to listen to.

    If you are new to audio mixing, your ears may not have "learned" to hear these things easily. I would continue using the headphones until you can really hear the difference.
    #7
    yoe
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/06 04:24:47 (permalink)
    I would like to stand by what people said here, Headphones are nice, but they CANNOT be used for proper mixing.
    Trust me, I know. I use to do the same exact thing you are doing, but you just can't tell the proper levels, the EQ, the Panning, and the General FEEL of the song on them.

    My biggest problem was that I had these great AKG Headphones that made everything sound just Wonderful, so I never knew anything was wrong!

    Maybe you're not at the point where you want other people to hear your material (except your girlfriend), so you don't need them yet. But if you want to make music that will be destributed in some way, or even, god forbid - SOLD - , you've GOTTA GET THOSE MONITORS!

    I got a pair of ALESIS MKII passive speakers, They are wonderful. Spend 200$ but very happy I did!

    http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=28
    #8
    Brett
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/06 04:38:54 (permalink)

    I'm going to disagree with Yoe, you use whatever you have and can afford. I live in Tokyo and so I simply cannot use my monitor speakers most of the time. Yes monitors speakers are better, but so is a $200 and hour professional studio. Audio technica ATH-M40fs are well thought of on this forum and have a very flat response; you can do a good job with them.

    Brett

    #9
    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: If You Have Headphone Monitors, Do you Still Need Actual Monitors? 2007/01/06 16:02:35 (permalink)
    the main problem with headphones is stereo imaging. because the headphones are 180° instead of 120° (or whatever an equilateral triangle is) everything may sound too wide and when you hear it on regular speakers you've smashed everything in the middle. having some reference CDs available is always a good idea, headphones or not.

    the main thing is to learn whatever monitoring system you have and try to use multiple sources to check mixes on (car stereos are good). but having said that it will take a lot more work to use headphones only, as it would take a lot more work to use your home stereo, etc. i have some behringer truths right now, and they are ok. but they probably would hold back a real pro engineer. now me, i just write songs and record them. if i have to choose between a new DAW or new guitar or sound treatment and a pair of mackie hr824s i can tell you which of the choices i won't be getting.

    for someone that does primarily mixing work, monitors may be a necessity. for hobbyists or musicians they may not be.

    - jack the ex-cynic
    #10
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