Finish mix EQ question

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oldsneakers
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2008/01/23 08:00:08 (permalink)

Finish mix EQ question

I had my neighbor that is a pro at mixing (several major label CD's) come over to my humble studio and help me do a finish mix on one of my songs. The mix as I had done it was pretty dull. I didn't do much EQ'ing. He listened to several commercial CD's on my monitors (Behringer B2031A's, KRK Rokit5's with SBX Sub) first and deemed them usable. They are all set to flat. Then we played my song, sure enough it was lacking high end. To make a long story shorter, he ended up boosting almost everything about 4db at around 5K. And it sure did sound brighter and a lot closer to the commercial CD's.

Here's how everything was recorded (24 bit 44.1)

Vocals - Studio Project C1 thru a Presonus Eureka into a TASCAM 2488 MTR, then imported into Sonar.
Bass & Guitars - Direct thru the Eureka into the DAW using Amplitube2 for all effects.
Organ - Yamaha S03 direct into DAW.
Drums - Recorded thru a Mackie 1402-VLZ board into a TASCAM 2488 MTR. Pair of C1's for overheads, SM57 top of snare, Shure Beta 56A bottom of snare, Audix D6 inside kick at beater, Sennheiser 421 on floor toms, Shure Beta 56A on mounted tom, Marshall MXL M57V on high hat.

The C1's are known to be bright mics and he even boosted those.

Here's my question: What did I do wrong in my recording process to end up with every instrument needing that much high end boost? I read you want to subtract EQ, not add. I had nothing there to subtract.
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10 Replies Related Threads

    jamesg1213
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/23 08:58:06 (permalink)
    Are you recording vocals and drums somewhere else than your studio? I notice you're using the Tascam and importing WAV's from it....could it be that the Tascam has a slightly dull sound to it? My next guess would be that your monitors are good, but your room is making everything sound brighter while you're mixing. Just guessing really, where's that Yep fellow...

     
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    #2
    bitflipper
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/23 15:10:43 (permalink)
    You're probably not doing anything wrong.

    As long as you didn't put any track EQ on, as long as your mixer and preamp were set flat, as long as your signals weren't too hot or crazy low, then you've done everything right. You've simply recorded sounds accurately, but they happened to be a bit dull.

    The real culprit here is most likely your room. Every room adds its own color. Unless you have an unused airplane hanger out back that you can convert to a studio, and a big sack of discretionary cash, you'll forever be fighting the fact that your room is too small and was not designed to be a recording studio.

    You might experiment with the EQ on the Eureka. If you know you have to boost frequencies, it's probably better to do it right there on the mic pre. It'll take a lot of trial and error to get it adjusted just right for your mic and voice, as the Eureka's controls are not the most ergonomical design imaginable. You'll want to record a track with the EQ in, then record the same part with the EQ bypassed to see if you're really improving anything or not. Use the adjustments that your neighbor did as a guide.

    P.S.
    If you're using the Eureka's compressor, make sure it's very light. It's touchy and will suck the life right out of a vocal if you're not careful. Keep the compression ratio low (4:1 or less, but it depends on your vocal style), the gain at zero, and use a soft knee.



    post edited by bitflipper - 2008/01/23 15:29:59


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    j boy
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/23 18:00:40 (permalink)
    You've heard of the "loudness wars" no doubt... welcome to the "brightness wars". It's been a trend over the past decade or so. For most casual listeners, brighter seems louder. If you dig out an old vinyl copy of a Beatles album, I'll bet you'll be surprised how "flat" it sounds in comparison to a modern recording. Without hearing your track it's hard to say but chances are good you're not doing anything wrong at all. In fact, the lack of a hyped top end means you're probably achieving a warm sound and avoiding harsh digititus. Keep up the good work!
    #4
    lhansen
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/23 18:24:11 (permalink)
    Jim,
    Howdy from another CT. Sonar forumite!!


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    #5
    oldsneakers
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/23 18:57:44 (permalink)
    Thanks for the help guys. Great info. Good point about the rooms we recorded in. They are all "softened" up with blanket's on the walls. I will try taking some of them down. And thanks j boy about the brightness wars. I didn't know that. Thanks again bitflipper for the help. I have been using the "recommended" compressor settings on the Eureka. I'll give that a try.


    Hey Ihansen. Ah lovely CT. What a place eh.
    #6
    papa2004
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/24 04:07:57 (permalink)
    ...as the Eureka's controls are not the most ergonomical design imaginable.


    That's an understatement...But I love the sound...

    Regards,
    Papa
    #7
    lazarous
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/24 10:32:54 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: oldsneakers

    Thanks for the help guys. Great info. Good point about the rooms we recorded in. They are all "softened" up with blanket's on the walls. I will try taking some of them down. And thanks j boy about the brightness wars. I didn't know that. Thanks again bitflipper for the help. I have been using the "recommended" compressor settings on the Eureka. I'll give that a try.

    Hey Ihansen. Ah lovely CT. What a place eh.

    Try adding diffusion instead of absorption (blankets create absorption, so does acoustic foam or 703/705). I'd always been a big believer in creating as dead a space as possible if your room is too small... and it worked well for me. I was able to get very functional sounds out of rooms that were too small.

    Then we built our own diffusers... and MAN, am I a convert! I finally understand why most pros suggest a 50/50 blend (modified for your space) of diffusion and absorption. I can't believe how much better the drums sound in our space now that we've added diffusion to the ceiling.

    A book case with many different sizes and types of books can be a cheap diffusion solution... just keep it varied, so you have an almost random appearance to the books in the book cases.

    Good luck!

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    fep
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/24 11:39:41 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: j boy

    You've heard of the "loudness wars" no doubt... welcome to the "brightness wars". It's been a trend over the past decade or so. For most casual listeners, brighter seems louder. If you dig out an old vinyl copy of a Beatles album, I'll bet you'll be surprised how "flat" it sounds in comparison to a modern recording. Without hearing your track it's hard to say but chances are good you're not doing anything wrong at all. In fact, the lack of a hyped top end means you're probably achieving a warm sound and avoiding harsh digititus. Keep up the good work!


    Brightness wars, that's a new one to me but it does make sense.

    I did an excercise of copying about 30 seconds of a tune; playing the parts and then mixing it. After I had laid done the tracks I mixed it with no A-B comparisons to the pro mix while mixing (this was a Larry Carlton tune). When I got the mix to were I liked it I compared it to the pro mix and was surprised how much brighter the pro mix sounded. And in comparison... the pro mix sounded way to bright, harsh, unnatural and lacked body to my ears... and this was on of my favorite CDs!

    I thought it was just my ears as this is subjective and also dependant on how well your ears pick up high end. But perhaps I was experiencing the brightness wars.
    post edited by fep - 2008/01/24 11:57:09
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    j boy
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/24 12:28:36 (permalink)
    Yeah it sort of came in in the 90's. The 80's were all about reverb abuse, then came the brightness thing, and then in the 00's it's all about uber-compression. In the end it just gives the listener ear fatigue.

    Seriously, dig out a classic vinyl album from the 70's like Floyd or Supertramp or Eagles or whatever and A/B it to a modern CD and you'll see what I mean.
    #10
    ru
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    RE: Finish mix EQ question 2008/01/24 12:35:47 (permalink)
    i'm glad to see this brought up. for some time i've been noticing the lack of 'clear air' in modern productions. we seem to be equating this atmospheric business with energy or detail, which is fine if that's the effect you want, but so often it lends unnecessary restlessness and fatigue to what could be fresh and open.
    #11
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