FireWire PCIe card recommendations?

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57Gregy
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2015/11/03 13:34:54 (permalink)

FireWire PCIe card recommendations?

My trusty 10-year old XP music computer died. I have an original Focusrite Saffire interface and want to try to integrate it into my Win 10 64-bit computer. I realize there may not be drivers for it in this modern, update-everything-so-nothing-you-now-use-will-work era, but the thing was rather pricey and I'd like to continue with it if possible.
So, what FireWire card do you use with Win 8/10?
Is a FireWire 'adapter' the same as a FireWire card?
It appears that any card I choose will be cheaper than a new interface, but if I can't get them together, I'll be sticking with Focusrite.

Greg 
I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
Everything is better with pie. 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
#1

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    MachineClaw
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/04 11:01:05 (permalink)
    I bought a generic firewire card that supported 400/800.  I use my focusrite at 400 with it.
     
    I think it cost me $20 and had the TI chipset but I can't remember.  you might want to scout the forcusrite website and look at support and read which chipset they recommend, I remember it was in the manual at some point.
     
    I only have the interface on the firewire so I don't use any additional devices on that firewire PCIe and it works just great.
    #2
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/04 11:26:18 (permalink)
    Thanks. I know there are not a lot of FireWire users anymore, so not a lot of FW devices, too.
    I see a few that have TI chipsets when searching, which is what most manufacturers recommend. My stock VIA card has worked fine, though.
    I guess I need to run over to Tiger Direct and see what they have.
    Could be expensive, though; they're near Sam Ash and Guitar Center.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #3
    batsbrew
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/04 11:32:00 (permalink)
    i thought fire wire was a dead end?
     

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    #4
    MachineClaw
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/04 11:58:08 (permalink)
    there aren't many firewire new products being made but the protocol works just fine.  you get the firewire card and a device and your setup.
     
    thunderbolt was the new big thing and that looks like it's dying already.  very little PC thunderbolt action going on.
     
    think is if you already have the interface ($300 invested) why not just buy a $20 card and keep rockin.  estpecially if you have to invest in a new computer anything to lighten the load on the wallet will be better.
    #5
    JonD
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/04 12:22:39 (permalink)
    I've always used SIIG cards (FW and USB2) with my DAW, and they've been flawless.
     
    Here's the one I currently use:
     
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16800998059
     
    Might be cheaper through Amazon or Ebay.

    SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
    #6
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/04 18:07:16 (permalink)
    Thanks, JonD. I saw that one in my search, but I'm not too familiar with any component manufacturers, so didn't know if it was trash or not.
    Batsbrew, MachineClaw is right. I already have a Saffire, which cost me $400 when new and is working fine. If any of Focusrite's drivers will work with it on a Win 10 box, I'll save some money and aggravation.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #7
    patm300e
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/20 08:17:10 (permalink)
    Presonus doesn't think it is dead.  Their new RM (Rack Mount) series StudioLive:
    http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-RM-Series
    uses Firewire to capture 16 or 32 (depending on model) channels.  It is also a wireless LIVE sound system...
     
     

    SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive.  Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
    #8
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/20 09:30:00 (permalink)
    SIIG makes good TI chipset Firewire controllers.
    If you choose SIIG, make sure it's a TI chipset unit.
    ie: SIIG puts a sticker over the chipset... and they have several models (some not using TI chipset).
     
    Syba also make a good inexpensive TI chipset Firewire controller.
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #9
    Starise
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/20 09:45:51 (permalink)

    Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
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    #10
    smallstonefan
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/20 12:20:02 (permalink)
    I bought the 3PORT Firewire 800 Pcie Card Allegro in August and it works great:
     
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XHBR8C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
     
    I bought this one because UAD only officially supports two PCIe cards out there and I needed a supported card for my Apollo.
    #11
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/22 23:11:40 (permalink)
    Thanks, Pat and Jim and James and Tim.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #12
    Starise
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2015/11/23 12:23:33 (permalink)
    A heads up Greg. Several of these cards use a molex power connector ( see pics ) It's a male molex which means you need a female power lead from your power supply. My power supply came with this connector. It's not a big deal to hook. If you only power it from the socket you may encounter problems.
    My guess is this is mainly for those systems that have a lot of drain on the sockets i.e. have more than one video card. Too much current on your socket can toast it.
     
    Also some cards are only FW800.

    Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
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     CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 
     
     www.soundcloud.com/starise
     
     
     
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    #13
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/09 13:38:24 (permalink)
    Installed the donated FireWire card with TI chip. It's recognized by Windows and is working properly, according to device manager.
    Downloaded the latest Saffire firmware update, 2.7 I think, but it won't install. Mix control did install from the disk, but the Saffire is not recognized, sorta.
    Running the firmware update, it reminds you to disconnect the device before beginning. I do that and it loads driver update 1. Before loading driver 2 it says to connect the device, check.
    Doesn't see the device, so it wouldn't load the first thousand times I tried it.
    Finally got it to load part 2, but when It gets to the box "Install Firmware", it tells me to connect the already-connected device, and that's as far as I can get.
    All the lights on the Saffire are lit. 
    Back to the "is not recognized, sorta" part.
    Frustrated, I didn't disconnect the Saffire before running the update. It tells me the Saffire is connected and to disconnect it before updating, so it does see it, until I run the update.
    So, my music computer is XP 32-bit, thus no Windows support, no MSE updates beyond what was installed a day before XP support ended.
    My question (finally! ) is, would you connect the computer to the internet to update the firmware on an unprotected computer and do you think it would make any difference when connecting the Saffire from the XP box to the newer Win 10 box?
     

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #14
    Cactus Music
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/09 20:04:19 (permalink)
    What about WIndows 7?? Most older stuff worked fine on that. WIndows 10 is not essentual to running a DAW. 

    Johnny V  
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    #15
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/10 10:08:28 (permalink)
    Unfortunately, out of ignorance, I upgraded from 7 to 10 and now I can't go back (easily).
    I'll try moving the Saffire updated firmware to a thumb drive and running it in the XP computer before I do anything else.
    Shoot, I may already be running the latest firmware; it's been years since the DAW was on the 'net.
     
    JohnnyV, you probably missed my older post about my dying XP DAW. Well, it did die, but was miraculously resurrected. So I'm trying to migrate all my Cakewalk stuff and interface to my newer computer before the final death of the DAW.
     
     

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #16
    JonD
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/10 10:46:10 (permalink)
    Greg,
    Sorry you're still having problems with this.  Now that your XP box is resurrected, I'd at least try the firmware update on it.  Seems worth the risk, considering any other fix would require something more drastic (downgrade from Win10, for example).

    SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
    #17
    Beagle
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/11 17:22:36 (permalink)
    57Gregy
     
    My question (finally! ) is, would you connect the computer to the internet to update the firmware on an unprotected computer and do you think it would make any difference when connecting the Saffire from the XP box to the newer Win 10 box?
     


    I would if that's an available option.
     
    In fact, I have an old XP DAW running on the internet that I've repurposed now.  I'm not sure what i'm going to do, if I will continue to leave it on the internet or not, but it's on the internet now a couple of hours every couple of days while I do stuff with it.  it complains all the time, but it serves the purpose I have for it and I only use it on the internet to download drivers and documents on devices I have connected to it.
     
    but it's completely up to you.  if you don't go to any malicious websites (and if you just search for "drivers" for something it's likely you WILL go to a site which would load unwanted stuff on your system, so be careful!), then I wouldn't worry about it just for a driver update.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #18
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/12 11:49:16 (permalink)
    The 4-pin molex power connection on Firewire controllers is to provide bus-power.
    If you don't plan to use bus-powered Firewire peripherals... you don't need to connect it.  

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
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    #19
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/14 18:20:27 (permalink)
    Thanks, Jim.
    Now, what does that mean?
    Updated the Saffire to 2.7 using a thumb drive.
    It's plugged into the Win 10 box now, but both it and the Belkin FireWire card are not connected to the computer, according to the Device Manager (Currently, this device is not connected to the computer [code 45]), and despite the lights being lit on the Saffire.
    Sometimes a restart will get the Belkin device to work; no luck yet with the Focusrite.
     

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #20
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/14 23:55:32 (permalink)
    Jim Roseberry
    The 4-pin molex power connection on Firewire controllers is to provide bus-power.
    If you don't plan to use bus-powered Firewire peripherals... you don't need to connect it.  


     
    I see. I do have the power supply for the Saffire, never used. Would there be a performance increase?
     

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #21
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/15 16:52:14 (permalink)
    57Gregy
    I see. I do have the power supply for the Saffire, never used. Would there be a performance increase?



     
    You won't see a performance increase (as in lower latency)... but you might notice a fidelity difference (with 48v phantom powered mics).

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #22
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/16 11:29:58 (permalink)
    Gotten to the point where the FireWire card is never connected. Device manager sees it, but reports that it's not connected. The Saffire's lights are lit, though.
    Previously, a restart or 2 would enable it, but now it remains unconnected.
    I guess I'll pull it out and reinstall and see what happens.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #23
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/19 00:28:09 (permalink)
    PCIe Firewire controllers are short x1 cards.
    It doesn't take much for them to get just a smidge out of position (not making proper contact).
    If this happens, re-seating the Firewire controller usually does the trick.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #24
    patm300e
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/20 07:42:06 (permalink)
    I just got this one:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002S53IG8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00
    It works great with my old Presonus Firepod.  Note that I am on Windows 7 64-bit.  No Windows 10 drivers.

    SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive.  Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
    #25
    BRainbow
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/01/23 00:38:06 (permalink)
    I happlily use 2 Mackie Firewire interfaces on 2 different DAW's - an old 1200F and a newer 1640i FW mixer/interface.  Both work great.  And I use the cheap Siig TI-chipset Firewire from NewEgg.  All is well.
     
    PS - If you're having trouble with your FW card, I sometimes spray a little DeOxit on the connectors when I reinstall a funky PCIe card.  Works wonders, but I live ina very salty and corrosive environment.
    post edited by BRainbow - 2016/01/23 00:53:44

    Cakewalk (forever), Two WIN10 64-bit DAWs: home-brew ASRock x299 Taichi / i7 7820x w/ 64GB RAM and ASUS X99A-II / i7-5820K w/ 32GB RAM, ZOOM UAC 8, Mackie ONYX 1640i FW Mixer/Interface, Mackie ONYX 1200F, Avalon U5 PreAmp, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, EastWest Composer CloudX, Yamaha MOTIF XS8, Ensoniq SD-1 and ESQ-1, Korg M1rEX, Yamaha TX-81Z, Roland D110, Line6 HELIX Rack and Native, POD HD-Pro, POD Farm 2.5, Yamaha NS-10 and Presonus Eris E8 monitors, Yamaha Disklavier Upright Piano, mics, guitars, basses, and the cutest little tambourine.
    #26
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/03/17 14:21:41 (permalink)
    Revisited this conundrum this week. Reinstalled the card and the device manager still doesn't see it. Clicked the 'check for hardware changes' and the 'show hidden devices' buttons several times and it doesn't appear.
    So I removed it and installed it in the other expansion slot. Same story.
    It's like the connections in the case just disappeared, like my DVD/CD drive did after the Win 10 update, an update that will live in infamy.
    Is there something that needs to be done besides installing? Enabling something in BIOS?
    I like the Saffire, but the Scarlett 2i4 looks pretty good, if and when the music computer does finally kick the bucket as it's threatened to do a couple of times in the last few months.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #27
    SuperG
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/03/17 18:52:26 (permalink)
    I'm using the SIIG Firewire card. I just put it in my brand new PC two weeks ago in order to interface with my Motu. I needed to get a SATA to old-style power adapter from NewEgg as the card wants the old style power connector to power the Firewire bus. My PC only supples SATA style power connections - the card came with an old-style to-old style Y-cable power adapter
     
    SIIG-2-Port-FireWire-1394a-PCI-Express-Card
    SATATMLP4F-12 Power Adapter Cable
     
    It's working fantastically, and it's at a bargain price.

    laudem Deo
    #28
    57Gregy
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/03/17 21:21:58 (permalink)
    I have the molex connector attached and it powers the Saffire (the lights come on).
    But the firewire card is not recognized by the computer. Previously, it did show up in the device manager, but "wasn't connected to the computer" according to DM.
    Now, it doesn't even appear in device manager.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #29
    JonD
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    Re: FireWire PCIe card recommendations? 2016/03/18 12:41:21 (permalink)
    57Gregy
    Is there something that needs to be done besides installing? Enabling something in BIOS?
    ...



    Normally, no.  Unless you have somehow disabled the FW in the BIOS.  Wouldn't hurt to check.
     
    Was the Saffire connected when you installed the drivers?  That can cause problems.  If it was (or you don't remember), it's worth uninstalling/reinstalling the drivers.  First make sure to physically disconnect the Saffire (or if it has a power switch, just power it off). After installing the drivers, reboot.  Then reconnect or power on the Saffire.
     
    One other thing to try:  Clean out your registry with something like CCleaner (I use JV Power Tools for this, but if you don't have a commercial utility, CCleaner will do).  First - and very importantly - create a backup of the registry. 
     
    After the cleanup, I would do an uninstall/reinstall of the drivers using the steps mentioned above.
     
    Good luck.

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    #30
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