digi2ns
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Fireplace in the Music Room
With winter coming and I see allot of time being spent out in the playroom, Im thinking about dropping in a fireplace of some-sort. Its a good size room so space isnt an issue, just the thought of how it will effect any wood in the area. (Drums, guitars, etc...) The room is part of the house but somewhat disconnected by exterior walls and isnt zoned in the heating. I have heat to the room but without being zoned-in it will get COLD. A fire place would be a nice addition with it also being a gathering spot just to sit, chat and drink coffee and stair outdoors when the snows all pilled up. Anyone else have a fireplace in their music area-concerns you have dealt with?
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Mesh
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 08:31:29
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The first thing I thought of was would the heat effect any of the equipment (DAW and other electronic gear)? If not, I think it's a great idea......possibly a first!! :)
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 08:47:43
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An open fireplace usually removes as much heated air as it produces. A closed fireplace...like an insert with doors will not let the room air be used for combustion or pulled up the chimney. I think a fireplace would not be any more concerning than any other source of heat. With wood, the humidity will play a bigger role than temperature by itself. Having a fireplace in the studio I think would be really unique and a nice place to gather to discuss production and songwriting.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 08:57:16
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Yeh the humidity was my concern/thought on it. Not sure but Id bet a humidifier would almost be required in the room.
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Mesh
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:08:15
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digi2ns Yeh the humidity was my concern/thought on it. Not sure but Id bet a humidifier would almost be required in the room. Wouldn't that just increase the humidity in the room?  .......or are you just saying you're big time gambler?
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spacey
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:08:49
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Not that I don't agree with Herb but.... Temperature plays a very big role. Equipment like a constant temperature. The wood instruments like @50% humidity. So if you can control both the better it is for the woods. So what if don't control these? The temperature changes would probably not be fast enough to cause immediate damage such as cracking the finish on a guitar but enough to cause tuning hassles. The humidity issues will effect certain instruments more than others- such as an acoustic guitar and depending on the amounts (low or high humidity) and the time of exposure will determine the results. The results being the wood swelling or drying up...both are not good effects. Location of instruments also comes into play. A good example is having an acoustic guitar hanging on an outside wall...the back maybe against a colder temp. than the face. Easy to imagine it....a cold backside and a warm fireplace front-side...not a good thing. So personally I'd first have to decide if I was after the heat or the heat and being able to visually enjoy the seeing the fire. If it was for the heat I'd probably go with a free standing stove. It would be easier to control the heat and the humidity with it I believe. Just keep it stoked and a kettle of water on it. A fire extinguisher, fire/carbon monoxide alarm, and meters/temp. and humidity.....and with friends like mine maybe a few warning signs and possibly some caution tape or railing lol.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:11:48
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And one of those things that you hang on the wall to tell you the time, temperature and the humidity would be nice. If the room is not heated with your current HVAC system..... I would certainly look at installing some sort of small split system to keep the temps above 60 degrees or so on those cold nights. Nothing like coming into the studio and the temps in there are 35 degrees. Adding heat to a room at that temp will cause condensation on the cold items in the room. Not good... As a gigging musician, we had to deal with this often in the winter when we loaded cold gear from the trailer into the clubs to play..... drums and guitars and amps and mixer boards and amps and speakers.... all got a bit of condensation on them till they warmed up. I would often leave my guitar in it's case, with the case closed until it was time for the sound check. Give it time to warm up a bit.... slowly.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:18:09
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Free Stander I forgot about those. That would be the ticket Id assume. Yes the fire draws the moisture out of the room Mesh. The temp swings would create a huge issue with tunings as well Id think. (Even though thats something I keep an eye on everytime I touch something  ) I keep all my guitars on stands out from the walls just for the temp differences. Not a good thing to have changes from one side of the piece to the other.
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spacey
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:27:02
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If you are a gigging musician and going from cold to heated clubs there is a technique for acclimating your guitar that works better than just leaving it in the case....it's "fanning". Open the case and close it. Do this a few times now and then. It helps the guitar adjust and won't be enough to shock the finish. I learned this many years ago from a guy that was also thinking all the tiny little circles in his guitar finish was from temp. changes....and not the hot ashes from his cigs LOL. I knew because my gold top had a bunch of them...but I didn't burn the headstock!
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pentimentosound
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:30:20
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Ah, I love Michigan as autumn kicks in! We've had hail up here by Sleeping Bear Dunes, 3 days in a row and are putting our yard stuff away, though I'm sure there'll be some nice Indian Summer days, still to come. I'm plotting out the warmer wall to put my guitar rack on, myself! Keep us posted on your discoveries RE humidity, etc. I suppose keeping a open pot of water on the stove helped, when I had a Franklin stove in the room next to the studio-instruments. I used to do an autumn campfire story-teller gig up here and refused to take my Martin, Taylors or Galloup outside. So, I bought a used Yamaha beater acoustic and tried not to notice how cold the back was ( or I was!) compared to the top! It probably isn't that cold in your music room! Michael
post edited by pentimentosound - 2012/09/24 09:42:54
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:37:01
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Holy Smokes you are up where I want to move to. Lots of great fishing there Michael!!!
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:40:29
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Humidity will be something to keep an eye on. Static in the winter and computers dont mix, not to mention what it will do to wood
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pentimentosound
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:46:46
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My wife and I have both thought we should become fisherfolks. Some friends have cabins on the Platte River and always invite us over for salmon and walleye! It's enough to make one go buy some worms! LOL! Where are you, Mike? Michael
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 09:56:53
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Southwest corner but the lake and casinos (Berrien Springs area)
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pentimentosound
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 10:17:10
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I know the area well! I lived in South Haven for 14 years, taught guitar there and gigged 4-7 nights a week thru out that area, from Valpo-Mich City, St Joe, K'zoo, up to Grand Rapids and Grand Haven. Even played there in Berrien, a long time ago! You must be close enough to Lake Michigan, to be in the snow belt!
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 11:02:48
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Bought 25 minutes away, Buchanan Yup anytime they call for snow, Means we get 10 times the amount projected for anyone else
post edited by digi2ns - 2012/09/24 11:03:51
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offnote
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 11:07:03
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very bad idea IMO, get a electric fireplace simulator or just a few groupies to warm you studio up p.s. I have though fireplace in my leaving room with acoustic grand piano side by side...
post edited by offnote - 2012/09/24 11:09:21
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pentimentosound
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 11:17:59
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In the 70's, I used to get a call from a pal at Electro Voice in Buchanan, whenever they had demo'd gear. That was fun to remember! I got my S100 PA speakers which I used for 40 years! and a RE20 which I wish I still had, slightly "not new" with warranty, too! Lots of old friends in your neck of the woods.
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 11:18:50
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This is the room Im working on for it. Sorry pics are dark  Room is 16x20 with 10' ceilings
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:00:07
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How's the floor structure in the room? The most instrument friendly solution would be a "real" fireplace, one made of bricks and with ability to store heat. That means the fire/smoke does not go into the chimney from the pit but circles up and around and under the pit before going to chimney, thus heating the stonemass. There must also be double steel plates to close the chimney after the fire's out. This way you only need to have a fire for about two hours (if it's a small fireplace) and the structure will stay warm for up to 24 hours or more (depending oin the structure and materials). That kind of fireplace doesn't get overly hot, but spreads the heat evenly and the temperature variation in the room is much, much smaller than with those metal things that get hot in two minutes and cold in 30 minutes. I'm not sure if you know what I'm talking about, nor if such are available where you live. Some time ago I asked people here on the forum if any of them know what an actual fireplace, one meant for heating houses, is like. I was curious, cause I've never seen one in american movies, for example. IIRC nobody actually knew what I was talking about. Light flashing!! You're in Michigan! There are lots of people from Nordic countries, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, aren't there? There must be sensible fireplaces as well! But I do realise a stony solution may not be possible in this case. It needs a solid foundation as it weights hundreds of kilos and they're reasonably expensive too compared to mere stoves.
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Crg
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:13:10
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I'm seeing two doors there, one more into the house? Sounds like you're considering a metal stand-alone type fireplace with a hood and chimney. Both are going to get hot and reflect sound and are not going to be easy to insulate with sound deadening products. Plus, being an opening to the outside the hood and chimney will let hot-warm air out when there's not a fire going, causing bigger temp changes. If you're not going to install a thermostat controlled heater, I'd suggest a wood fired heating stove. They are relatively small and put out a lot of heat. Once the door is closed on the stove, they are airtight. A friend in Colorado uses one in the winter and they work great. They use less wood and are much more managable than a fireplace. Other than that, I'd look at a couple of radiator type oil filled heaters.
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:21:15
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Yeh will have to go with something along the lines of the cast iron stand alone. Floor has a subfloor to it (suspended up off the concrete floor under it) About 12" below. I have the oil filled radiators already for this year but have an abundance of wood easily accessible. I love the thought of being able to see, smell and hear a nice fire every now and then-Thats where I was wondering how others might deal with their equipment in an atmosphere like this. Ill have to get me one of those humidity/temp gauge things to keep an eye on it once I do do something with fire.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:22:03
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Too much emphasis on the technicalities here. You can't beat the vibe and ambience created by a welcoming open fire. Some of the timber framed structures round here have them as a central focus and they've been standing for centuries, well outlasting the many generations of musicians that have played in them and any of their gear... Stoke it up, sit by the thing and start picking. This place has been hosting minstrels by the fire on a Saturday before any European knew America existed, and it still does.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/09/24 12:30:01
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:28:00
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I agree with ya JB but here in Michigan we have to worry about Codes, Insurance Companies involvement, etc... They add such a big head ache to wanting something simple like going free standing, flue pipe has to be just so so going up and sticking out, floor has to be signed off on, and on and on. They do what ever they can to get their fingers in on our business to make more money for the city
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Jonbouy
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:43:31
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Yeah, they're like that here too, you even have to get the colour of your own front door approved before you can paint it...lol.
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digi2ns
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 12:52:54
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Jonbouy Yeah, they're like that here too, you even have to get the colour of your own front door approved before you can paint it...lol. I like they keep it straight so those not well versed in construction dont buy a bad house but in small towns they see all that goes on and show up to check ya out. (Kinda like Rosco P Coletrain & Boss Hog  ) I just wish Daisy would come with 'em when they do invade
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batsbrew
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 13:05:30
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oil heater might be an option.
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batsbrew
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 13:06:41
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Starise
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 13:47:28
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Man this is starting to get complicated quickly. I put in one of those gas "ventless" fireplaces. It's not in my studio though. 30,000 btu works very well for heating that room evenly.I would be very tempted to go with a split system heat pump in your situation. Not much for ambiance but great for keeping maximum space and heating the space. Last year I bought my wife one of those electric heaters with the fake fireplace in it for her bedroom. It offers electric heat at over 5000 watts and an "almost" real looking fireplace.Just plug it in and go.5000 wattts probably won't do it for you though. It has plenty of ambiance but you can still freeze your keyster off unless you are directly in front of it.
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Re:Fireplace in the Music Room
2012/09/24 13:55:24
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in arctic areas like this I would go with underfloor heating for even distribution.
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