I have the A & H ZEDR-16 and it is excellent IMHO. It isn't a digital mixer though in the sense that you can recall settings.

It's an analogue mixer that can also put all it's channels through the firewire. 18 in  + 18 out, can be expanded with ADAT to add another 8in/out but then you lose the main stereo pair in/out leaving a total of 24 in/out.

I looked at Onyx 1640i but went with the A & H 'cos of the added MIDI controller element but that's not a side of it I use a lot. I use an MCU + XT as my main controllers but it's still handy having some of the MIDI functions on the ZED. I have a couple of the buttons mapped for resetting meters, and turning on/off the MIDI clock send for example. It's just easier when tracking to keep it all in one place.

One downside (for me) with the MIDI is that although the 16 faders can be switched in and out of MIDI mode on the fly when you switch them out it pulls that tracks fader down to -INF inside Sonar. I've spoken to A & H and they said it wasn't really designed to be switched in & out like that but rather used to track and then switched to 'control mode' for mixing. Use it like that and it's fine.

The routing possibilities are mind boggling. You can bring any track out of Sonar into one of the ZEDs channels, use the superb EQ and/or insert points for external gear and then re-record it back onto the same track in Sonar. So you have 16 channels of OTB mixing which can be mixed down and recorded to stereo pair if that's your bag, or kept as 16 individual tracks, or use them as external busses, or of course stay ITB. It's up to you, use it as a hybrid ITB/OTB if you like.

Pres are great, very quiet, the EQ can be monitored or not, and then recorded or not as you see fit, so it's possible to monitor with the EQ in but not record it. I use my two pre aux sends for cue mixes and the two pre-aux for outboard processors. I could go on & on but I'd be very surprised if you could think of a routing that isn't possible with it.

In case you hadn't noticed I love it, the only thing that would tempt me to replace it is it's bigger brother the GSR24.

Don't know much about the D8B, sorry.

I use the MCU & XT mainly because I already had the MCU before I bought the ZED. If I'd never had a controller with motorised faders I'd probably be happy with just the ZED as a controller, although if I'm honest I'd find the level snapping to -INF a PITA. I like to tweak a level here and there while I'm tracking and that makes it harder to do that.

It also hasn't got as much control available as the MCU but to be fair an MCU, or the MCU Pro now is almost the same money so a direct comparison is a bit unfair.

For MIDI control the ZED has transport buttons, but no jog wheel, a pair of bank buttons plus an increment button, 8 other buttons that can all be shifted as well + 12 rotary pots. There are also 4 dedicated MIDI faders plus the 16 channel faders that can be switched to MIDI control.

Just about all of those can be assigned to pretty much anything you want either via the generic surface or ACT. I don't want to mislead you and remember this is only my opinion. As a MIDI controller it's okay, it does the job - it's better than the MIDI control section on my PCR-800 but an MCU it ain't. As a mixer with the pres, EQ, firewire interface and the endless audio routing options it's superb.

If you go to the A&H website you can download the manual that'll give you an idea of it's capabilities.

Yes I see.

I think I'll be happy enough with the control surface of the A & H. What it means considering mixing, is that because it is an analog mixer, you got to send your mix to your desk mix it from there and then send it back to Sonar. In a way, that's good because you got a nice analog sound but you can't tweak directly in real-time the mix on the screen. So it'll be exactly like the Onyx1640i. Tell me if I'm wrong...

I think the VS700 is probably pretty good but out of budget...

Okay then - you're wrong. 

You don't *have* to send the mix out to the desk, you can if you want but it's not neccesary. There's assignment buttons down the side of each fader one of which turns the fader into a MIDI controller. SO you can assign that fader to the volume faders in Sonar and control them.


The problem comes if you want to tweak a fader while tracking, you can switch the fader into a MIDI controller but when you switch it back out it snaps the corresponding SOnar fader down to -INF. A & H claim that's by design but told me they were looking into a workround so that I could use them 'on the fly'. They said it was designed so I should switch the faders into MIDI control mode, use them in a mix session and then close the project before switching them back into a mixer fader. Doesn't make much sense to me but what do I know?

The other buttons along the fader are for selecting whereabouts in the strip the audio gets routed, post EQ 'to Sonar', returned from Sonar pre-Insert, or returned from SOnar post-EQ.

How you route the audio is up to you and done from within Sonar. You could have your master buss outputting to the main stereo outs of the desk, or you can have tracks/busses routed to any of the 16 other outs or combinations. There's so many possibilities it was mind boggling for me (a serious hobbyist) to begin with.

For example if I'm mixing ITB I route everything ultimately to my master buss which is assigned to ZED-R16 17 & 18 Out (the stereo pair) that goes to my control room out on the ZED-R16 which feeds my nearfield monitors and control room headphones. I also have a couple of cue mix busses routed to ZED outs 7 & 8, and 9 & 10 respectively. Each of those stereo pairs then go to the A & H Studio 1 and Studio 2 outs respectively which in turn go to my headphone amp.

That way in the control room I have an overall mix while I've two different cue mixes going to my headphone amp.

Of course any kit connected to any of the 16 ins can be routed both to the DAW via the firewire and/or the L+R buss.

Hope that all makes sense. 

is all the knobs of one track in the mixer assignable to control Sonar or is it just the volume faders?

Just the faders are MIDI assignable, the knobs per mono channel are for real time audio desk use only. From the top there's 1 x pre-amp gain, next 8 are all EQ - 4 Band - HF Shelf, Hi-mid with sweepable Q, freq, Gain - Lo-Mid - ditto the hi-mid and a LF Shelf. Then 4 aux sends 2 x post 2 x pre and a pan. It is possible to change the sends to all post or all pre but it's an internal change and not a simple thing to do.

I think it beats the Onyx 1640i on which (as I understood) you have to 'send' the mix to the mixer during a mix session. Again don't hesitate to prove me wrong on that one...

I think the Onyx works in a similar way to the ZED-R16 regarding mixing but I don't know that for a fact. Don't know if there's any Onyx owners on these boards who may be better positioned to answer that.

Also, if you can, try to explain me the concept of sending and sending back concretely because still not sure I got it... What actually happens?

This'll be quite some post if I'm going to do the ZEDs abilities justice, not sure how much sense I'll make but I'll give it a go..............


Each mono channel can have two input sources one external audio via the inputs and one coming back from Sonar via the firewire. They are exclusive though so only one source is usable at a time.


First I'll explain how my ZED-R16 is set up.............

INPUTS - this is all external audio via the ZED-R16s input xlr/jacks - (most of them via a patch bay so I can switch things easily but that's not really relevant.)




Mono Channels.........

1. Zoom Drum Machine (MONO)
2. SR-16 drum machine (MONO)
3. Roland Sonic Cell Left (synth)
4. Roland Sonic Cell Right
5. Casio Keyboard Left
6. Casio Keyboard Right
7. Feed 1 from my live room
8. Feed 2 from my live room
9. Yamaha FX900 Guitar Processor Left
10. Yamaha FX900 Guitar Processor Right
11. BOSS GT-6 Processor Left
12. BOSS GT-6 Processor Right
13. DI Box
14. Mic 1
15. Mic 2
16. Mic 3

Stereo Channels

1. L & R returns from an effects processor attached to AUX 1 & 2 Out
2. L & R returns from an effects processor attached to AUX 3 & 4 Out
3. L & R from an MP3 player
4. Unoccupied

Two track 1 in has a CD player attached

OUTS

Aux 1 & 2 Out to an effects processor L & R
Aux 3 & 4 Out to an effects processor L & R


Main outs go to a power amp so I can send the complete mix to studio speakers. I have my main control room outs going to a pair of Behringer Truths, my aux control room outs go to a cheap pair of powered monitors to check a mix on crappy speakers, and those two outs are switchable but exclusive to each other. Finally a pair of headphones also monitoring the ctrl room feed.

Studio 1 & 2 both go out to a headphone amp then onto another power amp.
 
In use......


I’ll assume you've got a fairly basic song 8 tracks of drums, a bass track, a couple of guitar tracks, a soft synth of some sort, & a few tracks of vocals. There's then several ways you can deal with mixing/monitoring.

ITB completely

If you want to mix ITB you can have all those tracks going to their own busses which all feed your master buss within Sonar. You could then have your master buss out assigned to the ZEDs MAIN LEFT & RIGHT (17 & 18). So you can monitor the mix coming back from Sonar via whatever you have the ZED attached to.

The ZEDs 16 channel faders can all be assigned to MIDI control and therefore control Sonar’s faders in banks of 16.


OTB completely


In Sonar - set your 8 drum track outs to the ZED outs 1 thru 8, bass track out to ZED 9, Guitar tracks 1 & 2 outs to ZED 10 & 11 respectively, Soft synth Left to ZED 12 (panned fully left) Soft synth Right to ZED 13 (panned full right), Vocals to ZED 14, 15, & 16

On the ZED unassign the main stereo pair from the DAW so now all the tracks within Sonar are playing back via the individual channels on the ZED. You can now control their levels with the faders on the ZED, not as MIDI control but as an external mix. This mix can be assigned to go the ZEDs L + R buss.

You’ve got choices at where the audio from Sonar enters the ZED as well on a per channel basis. You can choose to have it come back pre-insert so you can use external inline processors such as compressors, it will also go through the EQ which can be switched on & off per channel so you don’t have to use it (but it is fantastic) or you can have the Sonar audio return post EQ.

Both options send audio through the aux busses if you wish for more external processing.

For both methods the 4 MIDI faders, 12 rotaries, 8 buttons (can be shifted) can all be assigned to control elements of your choice within Sonar.

Returning the audio back to the DAW you also have a choice. You can send the whole lot to the ZEDS L + R buss which you can record back into Sonar on a  new track by selecting ZED Main In Left & Right hence mixing down to a stereo track. You could also choose to send the L & R mix back to a pair of mono tracks in Sonar if you wish by selecting the relative source in Sonar’s track inputs.

You can also send each individual track back to Sonar and re-record it, either in a new track or into a new layer of the existing track. Select the input source from within Sonar.

You can do all of these together if you wish, the stereo pair, the two monos, and all 16 tracks individually into new layers in the existing tracks and new tracks.

You can of course have a hybrid of all this so if my drums were MIDI drums I could assign the drum outs to my Zoom Drum Machine which is played back on the ZEDs channel 1, have bass and guitars coming out of Sonar into channels 9, 10, & 11 as before and leave the soft synth and vocals ITB going to my master buss and still record the whole lot onto a fresh stereo track in Sonar.

You can also send the individual tracks to their own stem busses in Sonar and route those busses to the ZED for mixing if you wish.

Do you see what I mean about the routing being mind boggling? I can’t imagine you finding you want to route the audio in a way that the ZED can’t handle.


Other features worth a mention are mono summing for checking mixes in mono, a talkback facility with internal mic. PFL/AFLs on just about everything so you can check it all in the control room before sending to the various outs.

I think that about covers it, I don’t think you’d regret buying one, I certainly haven’t. The only area it is a little weak on is the MIDI control as I’ve mentioned previously but that’s comparing it to an MCU. If you want better MIDI control buy a Behringer BCF2000, now that is a bargain piece of kit.