Firewire damages pc?

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flatpicknut
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January 26, 05 1:10 PM (permalink)

Firewire damages pc?

M-Audio's manuals warn that plugging or unplugging their firewire interfaces while powered up can damage the audio interface or even the computer!

Is this problem common to all firewire interfaces? Is M-Audio is the only one 'fessing up?
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    Stich
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 26, 05 2:16 PM (permalink)
    Sounds to me more like a CYA discalimer on thier part:
    The fact is that it is hot pluggable technology.

    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/h/hot_plugging.html
    #2
    danhazer
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 26, 05 2:19 PM (permalink)
    Sounds to me more like a CYA discalimer on thier part:
    The fact is that it is hot pluggable technology.

    He's right; it's plug-n-play and it's freakin' hot-swapble...What's up with m-audio and that statement? I think they should be taken to task about that.

    Dan Monaghan
    #3
    flatpicknut
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 26, 05 4:59 PM (permalink)
    FYI, this is from M-Audio's Knowledge Base. Similar cautions are made in the manuals for firewire interfaces.

    ========================================
    Caution: Do Not Hot-Plug FireWire Devices

    Reports have come to our attention of isolated problems when hot-plugging IEEE 1394 (aka “FireWire”) devices. (Hot-plugging refers to making 1394/FireWire connections when one or more of the devices—including the computer—is on.)

    When hot-plugging, there are rare occurrences where either the FireWire peripheral or the FireWire port on the host computer is rendered permanently inoperable. While M-Audio products adhere rigidly to the FireWire industry standard and pass stringent internal testing, the possibility remains that hot-plugging your M-Audio FireWire interface with some computers may result in the type of problem described here.

    We strongly encourage you to protect your equipment by refraining from hot-plugging any bus-powered FireWire device, including the M-Audio family of FireWire products. Connect your FireWire device while both the computer and FireWire device are powered off. Power on the FireWire device, then turn the computer on last. If you are using bus power (systems with IEEE1394 6-pin connectors) make sure you make the cable connection first, then turn the FireWire device power switch on, and turn the computer system on last.

    M-Audio is being proactive in investigating any issues that may adversely affect our customers. Please consult the Knowledge Base in the Support section at www.m-audio.com for updates on this important issue.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In case your M-Audio FireWire device is not detected by your computer on startup, try one or more of the following troubleshooting steps instead of hotplugging it:

    1. Turn your M-Audio FireWire device off, wait 30 seconds then power it on.

    2. Put your computer into hibernation mode, wait 30 seconds then reactivate it.

    3. Restart the computer (don’t turn it off) while the M-Audio FireWire device remains connected and powered on.
    #4
    Jim Wright
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 26, 05 6:17 PM (permalink)
    Firewire was indeed designed to be hot-pluggable technology.
    However, reports have surfaced that it doesn't always work as intended....

    Here's an excerpt from a Mac forum post, a year or so back. It's good advice; I've seen a fair number of static-zapped boards over the years (and killed a few boards and RAM modules myself this way, sad to say...)

    While I cannot say that it's not possible to damage Firewire circuitry just by normal hot-plugging, I suspect that a significant fraction of damage to Firewire ports is caused not by the normal hot-plug connection but rather by static electricity. I've seen or talked to large numbers of users who are regularly shocking their systems when they touch them due to the buildup of a static electricity charge in the users' bodies from carpets, chair fabrics and the like. These users have no idea that if they do have such a charge built up, touching any port on the computer could easily damage the circuitry.

    Any users of electronic equipment, including computers, need to be very aware of the potential for static electricity buildup in their environment and take steps to control it. Such steps can include: simply getting in the habit of touching a grounded item - chair, lamp, pipe, etc. - before you touch your computer; using an antistatic spray on carpets and furniture used around a computer; for those in dry or heavily air-conditioned environments using a humidifier around the computer area; and in extreme situations pulling out a static-causing carpet and installing an antistatic carpet or going to tile.

    Not to say that all Firewire problems are caused by static shock, but I'm certain that if more people would take proper precautions around their systems as regards static electricity, there would at least be fewer issues with Firewire ports, as well as other components, going bad.

    Googling just now turned up a fair number of problem reports by Mac users. Apparently, hot-plugging a bus-powered Firewire device (i.e. an external drive that doesn't have its own power supply) is considered more hazardous than hot-plugging a non-bus-powered device. Please note: I have no way of checking the accuracy of these reports; use appropriate skepticism.

    This link: http://www.wiebetech.com/pressreleases/FireWirePortFailures.htm goes into a fair amount of detail on hotplug-related problems. It was written in 2003; I haven't done more than skim it, and don't vouch for its accuracy.

    - just my 2 bits

    Jim

    One last note: if you are hot-unplugging an external drive (disconnecting it from your PC while Windows is still running), you should always "unmount" the drive before disconnecting it or powering it off. Unmounting tells Windows to finish writing any files or doing any other disk housekeeping. Windows puts up a message after the drive is successfully unmounted. (If you've already shut down Windows, not to worry. Windows takes care of any necessary housekeeping during its normal shutdown process. BSOD, of course, is another matter ....).
    #5
    Jay Stephen
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 26, 05 7:39 PM (permalink)
    This can and IS a problem with certain more senitive gear. Over at the tascamforums.com, members have noted examples of damage occuring on their FW1884's. The FW1884 manual has a similar warning to M-Audio's.

    1394 may have been designed to be hot swappable but there is enough evidence to suggest that it can not be assumed to function without damage on all devices.

    Hot-swap at your own risk!!

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    #6
    _Roll_N_Rock
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 26, 05 8:43 PM (permalink)
    It could be that they are thinking ESD.

    I suppose if you touched the metal while plugging it in and you happened to be full of static it could cause damage but im sure it is not very common.

    These things that are pleasin’ you...
    Can hurt you somehow!
    #7
    jcschild
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 27, 05 12:41 AM (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: _Roll_N_Rock

    It could be that they are thinking ESD.

    I suppose if you touched the metal while plugging it in and you happened to be full of static it could cause damage but im sure it is not very common.



    EXACTLY, this can happen with USB also.
    while rare you can fry the mobo with Static. very common for memory and PCI cards.

    Scott
    ADK
    #8
    RickH
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    RE: Firewire damages pc? January 29, 05 3:26 PM (permalink)
    Pure speculation on my part, but...

    Even though Maudio say they adhere to the Firewire standard, I have my doubts as to whether they actually do or not - and this doubt is fueled by their same claim to USB standard adherence, which in fact, is false.

    But again, this is pure speculation on my part. You may want to google for maudio firewire problem, or similar yourself.

    R.
    ==
    < Message edited by RickH -- 1/29/2005 3:38:11 PM >
    #9
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