wineshop
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First Midi Orchestration Piece
Hi. I've been wanting to write a few music scores for a long time and finally invested the money in the tools I need. I wanted to do a practice song, and this is what I came up with. It's a variation on several Jerry Goldsmith scores that I was familiar with. I thought that would make it a fairly easy piece to score as practice - it was not! I'm interested in feedback on how the overall score sounds. Is it realistic enough? What advice would you give to make things more realistic? Also - does anyone recognize the pieces? Musically, the selection I transition to in the middle would never belong there. But I wanted to see if I could force it to fit! It's a song that's always seemed a little "magical" to me. Thanks, in advance! http://soundcloud.com/harlon-moss/goldsmith
post edited by wineshop - 2012/07/29 12:57:34
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Purple Rhapsody
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/29 14:41:26
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It sounds good, but not realistic to my ears. The string patches have too much of a constant attack on them and there are places where one note hasn't finished before the next has begun - I noticed it in the flute near the beginning and a couple of places with the strings. What sample package are you using? If it's EW Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra you could use some Midi CC11 to control the volumes of the instruments dynamically making them more realistic, and you could also look at some of the more dynamic DXF patches that use the modulation wheel for dynamics. Of course if it's not EWQL then what I've just said made no sense whatsoever to you! Cheers, Terry.
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/29 15:43:41
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Thanks so much for the feedback. Granted - I was hoping for at least somewhat realistic! Lol. I wish I could hear exactly what your ears are hearing so I can fix them. For example, the flute is a solo flute from Symphobia 2. It will not allow polyphonic play, so I'm not sure about overlapping notes. Could you be hearing reverb trails? I'll go back and listen close and see if I can hear what you're hearing. As for strings, they are from LASS. There are some overlapping notes there. But - somewhere - I read that is common to create legato lines, so I kind of left them. Bad idea? And I'll admit pretty much all I did with strings was load a legato patch and play it, using only mod wheel for some dynamics. But, obviously - I have a lot to learn about doing that right. How else can I change the "constant attack" you are hearing? Thank you again! Like I said - I want to use this piece as a learning project. So any advice is welcome! By the way - I went to your Soundcloud site. Yikes! Very impressive music. So, obviously, your advice is extremely welcome!
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Purple Rhapsody
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/29 15:58:51
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I really don't have the faintest idea how to resolve issues with Symphobia or LASS - I'm a EWQL man all the way. It's possible that it was a reverb trail issue with the flute. I would never overlap string notes to help with legato - it's the first thing that shows off the fact that you're using samples (at least to my ears) because it's unrealistic... if a single string section needs to play multiple notes then half will play one note and the other half will play the other one and the overall volume of each note obviously decreases. However... although I use EWQL a huge amount and have had experience with arranging for orchestras I am NOT an expert so take everything I say with a good dose of realisation that I'm amateur and don't have all the answers (and I'm opinionated too... ;-) ) By the way, I was excessively critical because it sounded like you wanted to know the faults - however what I heard was still a fantastically realistic arrangement... I was just being very very nitpicky! Cheers, Terry.
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/29 16:20:25
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Terry - I very much welcome the critical reviews! Often we all share a song we have done with the hope of simply getting some praise for our work. But in this case, while a "nice job" is always welcome, I really want some ideas on how to get better. I've played guitar for about 30 years (wow I'm getting old) and outside of pop/ rock strings arrangements I have little experience with this. I did play trumpet through college. So I have some overall music knowledge. But outside of helping me hear what a tuba, or oboe should be doing, it's little help with strings and such! I came very close to purchasing EWQL. I think I even had it added to shopping cart. But I had a bit more of a budget, so I decided to go with various individual libraries (and probably wound up spending way more that I could have). Listening to your stuff shows EWQL is pretty darn versatile! I'll go back and take a look at the overlapping notes. I don't want to quantize, so perhaps I'll try to edit them individually and see how that sounds. My guess is that it will help. Thanks for being nipicky!!
post edited by wineshop - 2012/07/29 16:21:35
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pistolpete
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/29 17:22:29
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drumstixkev
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/29 18:57:39
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WOW . . . A very powerful piece when it kicks in. Sounds great on my end. KUDOS! Kev
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/30 00:18:41
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Thanks, pistolpete and Kev. Yeah -I found it challenging to keep the entire tracked pulled back to set up the HUGE ending. I was hoping someone would like that big ending! Thanks, y'all for the kind words! Anymore reviews are wanted! Does anyone know the song in the middle of the project?
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chuckebaby
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/30 00:52:48
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dude you got a positive comment from pistol pete ? you must be doing something right.
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Lynn
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/30 01:04:01
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/30 01:31:14
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I gotta say - you're all making me smile a bit!!! Thank you for taking the time to listen. And reply back! I love this forum!!
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ProjectM
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/30 09:57:36
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I think this sounds pretty cool. LASS, eh? Hmmm... I think I need to check it out. My only advice is that you get familliar with the Velocity editing to add some more realism. At times you can kind of hear that it's programmed where things jump at you a little. If you just experiment with that and figure out how it works then you should make this already great piece even better Well done! Thanks for sharing.
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/30 20:13:07
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Thanks, ProjectM. That's the main thing I hear, as well. I've spent a lot of time trying to tame those little things. The good thing is - this session taught me a lot (as a result of my early mistakes). I'll likely play with this one a bit more in that area, but I have a better understanding of some things NOT to do next time. Thanks, again! Advice always welcome!
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Wookiee
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/31 15:38:29
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Sounds pleasant here thanks for sharing.
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notnat
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/31 19:32:35
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This is quite lovely... excellent work...
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darylcrowley
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/07/31 22:22:07
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I have no experince mixing this kind of music, although I use strings some times as backing tracks, but it sounds really very nice to me. I wish I could do that sort of thing, I'm more the bluesy, jazz, country, rock picker. Daryl
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/08/01 01:06:54
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Thanks for taking the time to listen, fellas. And Daryl - I hear ya, brother. I've always been a pretty basic rock guy, myself. Although I've always really enjoyed this kind of music. So - I thought ... why not give it a try?? I did play trumpet through college, so - not totally green to arrangements. Thanks!!
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LpMike75
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/08/01 01:25:36
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I think you did a great job, did you have the midi files or official Scores? I am with Terry, I think use of expression (CC11) will go a long way. If you are not playing things in real time with an expression pedal you can go back and add in some expression at the start and end of the notes, to swell in and out. I would do each instrument individually for realism. I think what we hear in the beginning woodwind is, it sounds like a woodwind being played on piano. There is no sense of legato. I dont know if LASS has any legato patches you could try instead. If not, try layering a couple different patches and playing with the expression between the two patches so you dont get the strong attack on each note for your smooth legato phrase. Nice undertaking for your first midi orchestrion, I really enjoy Goldmith's film scores
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wineshop
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Re:First Midi Orchestration Piece
2012/08/01 02:10:39
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Hey, Mike. Thanks for the feedback. No - did not have the midi files or score. I just sort of winged it. In fact, I figured most parts out on my guitar first (my main instrument) then played each part one at a time on my M-Audio keyboard. I did try to work the mod wheel, but it was much harder than I thought! For one thing, the mod wheel doesn't control the same thing in each patch. Who knew? So I spent a lot of time wrapping my head around that. Even then - my first few playbacks were really bad. I was really frustrated at how "unreal" it sounded! And I can tell based on the feedback I've gotten on this thread, that is still my area I have to improve on. And I figured that. But I will indeed keep working at it. It has really been a lot of fun, so I find it easy to keep working on. Hard to do that when music becomes work! That flute solo is from Symphobia 2. It is indeed a lagato patch, but I'm sure I could do a better job playing it. Your idea of layer is a really interesting one. I'll play with that. A friend had a really good idea. He suggested bringing in an actualy violin/ cello/ flute player and record them playing the same part. Then, using those as guides - try and match them! Brilliant! Thank again!
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